Indirect Artillery Vehicle

[Staticelf]

Originally Posted by Baneblade

But they won't paint themselves into that type of corner. That large a change in base designs will set the Roadmap back six months, easily.

Ok so you have successfully s#!t on his point....but your suggestion to fix it IS................

I belive in you Bane blade....

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by Staticelf

So would you anti-artillery agree that indirect artillery used properly would get people to move out ove their bases and take the fights into the open because staying in the base would mean explosive death?

If so that is exactly why Im proposing it! The best battles I have seen take place BETWEEN bases in the enviroment not in the bases where instead of massive combat you get a bunch of 1v1 mini battles. So if it would force us out of bases then it is doing exactly what it is supposed to. And yes it should have no armor and/or easy to kill gunner. So that you have to protect them from the angry enemy coming out to find you.

No.

I would probably just start playing PS2 less.

I could go back to WOT if i wanted to put up[ with artillery.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Staticelf

Ok what changes? Please expand.
That is the point of all these forum discussions....theoretical artillery can easily lead to theoretical base changes to make the artillery work. (so it is on topic)

Post up some of the changes that need to be made to make the bases artillery compatible please.

(And to baneblade I wasnt talking down to you I was trying to nicely tell you to go post somewhere else as your posts are not furthering the conversation...so until you have something to add that is beneficial....good day to you, sir.)

Fair enough. Let's first see what would be needed.

- No choke points artillery can spam to completely tie down defenders.
- Plentiful shelter against indirect fire.
- No influence from artillery on control console status OR any approach to the control console.
- No influence from artillery on SCU generator status
- Plenty exits that the same artillery battery cannot hit (exits in different directions and in dispersed locations).
- No vehicle pads in the open.
- Artillery should only hit courtyard objects, but courtyards must remain possible to cross intermittently when under artillery barrage (already sufficient camp and crossfire threat)

This does not correspond with modular building design. Basically it requires bunker like structures that are intraconnected, extensive and a lot of other forms of overhead shelter and splash protection.

Any objectives have to go underground or inside buildings.


Some other points about artillery:
- Very slow rate of fire and reload
- Artillery should not be able to fire without a spotter
- Significant inaccuracy
- Low health



But here is another annoying thing about artillery: If they get too much range, they will sit next to warpgate shields - or even inside - becoming invulnerable. That's a huge problem since they allow firing out of shields right now.

I hope you also realise that these things would not come into the game one at a time, outfit events could completely ruin other people's game for the evening.

[Staticelf]

I think all your points about artillery are acceptable. Weak armor, fire blind without spotter, and slow to fire. All check

And I think by putting them as stationary turrets inside bases and making it so they cant shoot inside their own base or reach any other bases you wont need any overhead protection from them in the base. (of course more trench systems and overhead cover would be appreciated in moderation!)

I am all for more defensible base configurations...right now our base defenses pretty much consist of "Pray they are dumb enough to wait for the vehicle shields to come down instead of just driving their sundy in the two shieldless giant gaps in the wall?)

So my base issues are...
First ALL shields should block enemy soldiers AND vehicles from getting through...period! That is what light assault and infiltrators are for...just climb the towers to get in...(yes you can do it, don't believe me youtube it or find me on Connery and I will show you.)

Second if you have four entry gates....Put shields on all four NOT JUST TWO!? WTF (again shields should stop both infantry and vehicles....instead of infantry just waltzing through the gate to go let their tanks in!?)

But my main effort is to draw combat out of bases and into the open...so that it feels more like combined arms massive conflict...instead of tanks outside blasting doors and walkways while shotguns run inside blasting anything that moves....which leads us to my favorite (sarcasm) "guys outside spawn room shooting at guys inside the spawn room while guys inside the spawn room shoot at guys outside the spawn room"....ok timer ran down! See you when we pin you in the next spawn room!

So in the above configuration no indirect artillery shell would ever land inside a base...only outside of it.

[Baneblade]

So, you want to take combat away from bases, while adding more not only one, but two more reasons to fight inside a base?

[Timealude]

Well from I have see from videos and such, the level design team said they have taken in to account with things like artillery...which is im sure another reason why we are getting changes to the bases on Indar as well. IMO......Im starting to believe the tiny outpost that are so susceptible to indirect fire because they arent actually meant to sustain fights and they are purely a way to warn the empire of an approaching force. I dont think we should also rule artillery out just because our current bases arent designed for them, they can always go back and change the base layout to give us more cover from things like bombers or tank spam.

[Sledgecrushr]

Yeah I just cant see artillery being much fun for the majority of players in this game. Any kind of death that you literally have zero chance at even seeing who is shooting at you just seems not very cool to me. Its bad enough with liberators and rocketpods and tanks. Now throw in all the other HE insta death we have and we have enough of that stuff already. At least with an OS you do get a chance to get out of the way.

[Dougnifico]

I support indirect fire artillery with a couple stipulations.

1. Weak armor with no major defensive systems.
2. Very inaccurate/unusable without a spotter and requires adjusting with one.
3. Shells must have a visible trail and a sound indicator that they are coming down. The sound would be louder the closer you are to the impact area.
4. Long deploy time.
5. Automatic radar signature while firing.

[Staticelf]

HE is not insatdeath with flak armor on....it does almost no damage with it maxed! Its the only inf defense that has a noticable effect when equipped so why are you guys not using it? If you dont believe me try it...I didn't believe either till I did

[HiroshiChugi]

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

But then wouldn't it require Anti-Air support?

Which would then require Anti-Tank Support?

Which would then require Anti-Infantry Support?

Originally Posted by Staticelf

Uh oh! Sounds like we are getting dangerously close to something that encourages combined arms combat.

Ruffdog that is EXACTLY what I want them to do.

I am 1000% for encouraging combat that isnt "guys standing outside of spawnroom trying to kill guys standing inside of spawn room."

Getting planetside away from "myshotgun vs yourshotgun as we meet around a corner in a base (winner repeats until dead)" is the whole point of this new weaponry.

THANK YOU! Why hasn't anyody seen this before when this idea was first brought up?!? I remember the original Planetside 2 battles where the battles were FIRST outside of the bases and hen BROUGHT INTO the base as the opposing force(s) pushed the defenders into the walls of the base. I remember that and miss it soooooo much...

[Shogun]

Originally Posted by HiroshiChugi

THANK YOU! Why hasn't anyody seen this before when this idea was first brought up?!? I remember the original Planetside 2 battles where the battles were FIRST outside of the bases and hen BROUGHT INTO the base as the opposing force(s) pushed the defenders into the walls of the base. I remember that and miss it soooooo much...

i miss this, too. but this is not achieved by implementing artillery. this can only be achieved by redesign of the bases and/or the capture mechanics.

in planetside 1 all battles followed this path more or less:

big vehicle attack on a base, trying to get into the courtyard.
when courtyard is secured and enemies are contained in the base, try to push inside.
when inside, go either for controlcenter, spawn or generator to win and eventually end the fight.

in ps2 you go for the spawn first, leaving out all the other steps.
artillery will not change that.

[HiroshiChugi]

Originally Posted by Shogun

i miss this, too. but this is not achieved by implementing artillery. this can only be achieved by redesign of the bases and/or the capture mechanics.

in planetside 1 all battles followed this path more or less:

big vehicle attack on a base, trying to get into the courtyard.
when courtyard is secured and enemies are contained in the base, try to push inside.
when inside, go either for controlcenter, spawn or generator to win and eventually end the fight.

in ps2 you go for the spawn first, leaving out all the other steps.
artillery will not change that.

I know you keep bringing up Planetside 1 for references, but let's face it, the new players just don't care. I do, for one, but others don't. I do however, see a viable issue with the courtyard. Where is the capture point? Is it whoever has the most forces for a certain amount of time? Is it a tug-o-war kind of thing? How is it implemented?

[Shogun]

i don´t care if new players like ps1 reference or not. you brought up the desire to bring back battleflow like it was in ps1. you just didn´t name it!

what capturepoint in a courtyard? courtyards were taken by containing the enemy in the basebuilding and storming the courtyard with friendly units. there is no mechanic needed there, people knew when a courtyard was lost or won without a stupid colored light telling the status. the only capturepoint was deeply buried in the basebuilding.

spawns were also deep within basebuildings and you had to go in there to take them down. enemies could still spawn there and try to resecure until all 3 tubes were destroyed.

this brought the battleflow like it was in ps1. it was like that in ps2 for a short time because beta players were mostly ps1 players who were used to this flow and tried to play ps2 like they played ps1. but this is now impossible.

[Figment]

Things like flak armour are a weak excuse to excuse OP AoE weapons.

[Shogun]

Originally Posted by Figment

Things like flak armour are a weak excuse to excuse OP AoE weapons.

especially when new free-players can´t use it! and upgrading this would mean no new weapon for weeks.