Vehicle Hacking is now Possible

[GeoGnome]

Originally Posted by OCNSethy

I wouldnt worry too much guys. The way things are going, infils will get nerfed right out of the game.

Jeese... complaining about infil snipers, infil infiltrators and now trying to limit the only other skills they have left - hacking & stealthing.

Just give them a pointy stick and they can shake it use harsh language...

I don't see the 150m limit on OHK headshots holding.

There has been way too negative of a response, no one really Cared about it on the receiving end, so the snipers are coming out of the woodwork to protest and there is just no one there to say: "Yeah, I hate getting shot in the head, thank you SOE."

This wont happen. And, if it does still get limited, I'd say it'll be to 200-230m. Something I see a lot is people saying: "I think 150 is too much, but 200 is okay."

[maradine]

I hate getting shot in the head (thank you SOE). But I also hate getting run over by tanks, missing critical snapshots, getting grenaded, squad miscommunications, babies, orphans, and durians. At a certain point you suck it up.

[Snoopy]

They're less annoying than heavy assault overshield scrubs.

[Plaqueis]

Lol.. the (so-called) sniper-rifles are a joke as they are right now... max range is what, 300 meters even with 12x scope? I managed to shoot 2 inch headshot groups repeatedly with 30-year old RK62 (derivant of AK47) with open sights from that distance back when i was in the service, and i wasn't even a good shot. Ofcourse i could hold my breath for more than 2 seconds, unllike the guy in game... but still.

EDIT: About OHK, ofcourse they should OHK; infact it should be way easier and not just limited to headshots. As long as getting hit means nothing whatsoever unless you're infact dead (doesnt slow you down, has no effect on your abilities in any level), atleast the bolt-action rifles should be OHK on head/chest shots, every time. And they should have more range, hitting targets at half a mile with 12x scope is hardly a challenge.

EDIT2: I know this game has nothing to do with simulating real-life, but come one.. 12x scope fails in ranges you could fucking own with ironsights..? Please...

EDIT4: And i just realized the thread is about something else completely.. sorry, i just responded to something i saw here.

EDIT3: Just for the record, i have 2000+ kills with VS bolt-actions in the game, so i'm not a complete newb with the subject. It's just something that annoys the hell out of me with this game...

[GeoGnome]

Originally Posted by Plaqueis

Lol.. the (so-called) sniper-rifles are a joke as they are right now... max range is what, 300 meters even with 12x scope? I managed to shoot 2 inch headshot groups repeatedly with 30-year old RK62 (derivant of AK47) with open sights from that distance back when i was in the service, and i wasn't even a good shot. Ofcourse i could hold my breath for more than 2 seconds, unllike the guy in game... but still.

EDIT: About OHK, ofcourse they should OHK; infact it should be way easier and not just limited to headshots. As long as getting hit means nothing whatsoever unless you're infact dead (doesnt slow you down, has no effect on your abilities in any level), atleast the bolt-action rifles should be OHK on head/chest shots, every time. And they should have more range, hitting targets at half a mile with 12x scope is hardly a challenge.

EDIT2: I know this game has nothing to do with simulating real-life, but come one.. 12x scope fails in ranges you could fucking own with ironsights..? Please...

EDIT4: And i just realized the thread is about something else completely.. sorry, i just responded to something i saw here.

EDIT3: Just for the record, i have 2000+ kills with VS bolt-actions in the game, so i'm not a complete newb with the subject. It's just something that annoys the hell out of me with this game...

It's w/e

I'm the OPer, vehicle hacking is a definite maybe at this point, so expanding it to other Infil related topics isn't a horrible thing

[kubacheski]

Originally Posted by Bobby Shaftoe

No, it's not an interesting game mechanic, it's simply getting shot at by everyone 'checking' who's friend/foe and with this 'playerbase' one hit marker never seems to be enough to determine FoF for them.

Oh, I'm taking fire, evades/turns, nope, just a friendly 'tagging' me, oh look I'm now a perfect target for an enemy airchav to empty a mag into.

It would have been horrendous before they nerfed 'camos', now it would be only marginally terrible.

It wasn't a problem in PS1 since, funnily enough, vehicles were entirely faction colours, not some small region impossible to discern from 100 metres away requiring decent viewing angle and lighting levels.

So, you're saying the trouble isn't hacking but the camos and playerbase? Cause its much more difficult to tell friend from foe?

You are in an enemy aircraft.....this may be a fully intended consequence.

[Edfishy]

Originally Posted by kubacheski

So, you're saying the trouble isn't hacking but the camos and playerbase? Cause its much more difficult to tell friend from foe?

You are in an enemy aircraft.....this may be a fully intended consequence.

I forgot that enemy vehicles would have empire colored tracers to help give away their baddyness. They could also have spotting leave a skull / pirate icon on the minimap so future friendlies will instantly recognize the captured vehicle, converge and destroy it.

[Wahooo]

Originally Posted by Plaqueis

EDIT4: And i just realized the thread is about something else completely.. sorry, i just responded to something i saw here.

I've really tried to restrain from raging in this thread as well for this reason. So many things wrong with this suggested nerf it is hard for me to even hold my reasoning together enough to put it all down in logical fashion.

Originally Posted by kubacheski

So, you're saying the trouble isn't hacking but the camos and playerbase? Cause its much more difficult to tell friend from foe?

You are in an enemy aircraft.....this may be a fully intended consequence.

I think the IFF trouble is a consequence that got this back burnered as something that didn't need work on a long time ago. It CAN be a bit of a tough thing, but I don't think it is that bad. I know from the old PS1 empire tech events or even worse when an empire actually got enemy tech from cont locking someone else, if you logged on and didn't realize that it was VERY dissorrienting, but in the grand scheme of things not a big deal.

Increasing the role of the infil and giving them a hack tool, especially if it continues along the lines of current game play and could only be used uncloaked? The fun upside to the chaos created far out weighs the potential downside.

Hell for what ended up being 1/2 of the PS1's life it was just as easy to exploit alt accounts to get other empires weapons but it was never a problem because the benefit just wasn't worth the effort. Same will be here.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

Originally Posted by kubacheski

this may be a fully intended consequence.

Getting shot at by friendlies, in the same ESF as them is an intended consequence... yeah, no.

I'm a VS in a Scythe, I get shot at by another VS in a Scythe to see if I'm FoF, whilst a TR in a Scythe shoots me and an NC in a Scythe shoots me. So instead of a 2v1v1 it's a free for all.

If confusion/frustration are intended consequences... well it does explain almost everything else they've done with the game.

All I see this promoting is air zerg squads/platoons simply to avoid fratricide.

As I've previously mentioned, they've got plenty of issues to even deal with before this becomes anything less than a flying clusterfuck.

Wahoo, it wasn't worth the effort driving tanks from sanc, to a quiet cont, logging out, flying to said tank, jacking it and then what? Driving around, requiring another person to accomplish anything with it? There's almost 30 places on Indar you can pull an ESF from, you can get warpgate to warpgate in well under 2 minutes. You don't need anyone else to fly/gun an ESF, niether do you for tanks now.

We don't even know if they'll let you hack out enemy Empire Specific vehicles if you simply hack an enemy terminal, letting you choose yours or the enemies, that'd be even worse!
(TR hacking VS term can pull both TR/VS)

[Wahooo]

Originally Posted by Bobby Shaftoe

Wahoo, it wasn't worth the effort driving tanks from sanc, to a quiet cont, logging out, flying to said tank, jacking it and then what? Driving around, requiring another person to accomplish anything with it? There's almost 30 places on Indar you can pull an ESF from, you can get warpgate to warpgate in well under 2 minutes. You don't need anyone else to fly/gun an ESF, niether do you for tanks now.

Um... in PS1 if I wanted JH or lasher2.0 or any enemy tech, I could fire-up a second session on an alt account in reserves, or just fire up my laptop that couldn't really run PS1 and an alt account, go to any old base pull whatever I wanted from the alt account and hack it to my main. I could hack a locker and dump weapons into it. Or I could go two bases away from the fight pull an MBT with the alt, hack-it and run to the battle. I knew others that would do this as well. We did it on Hossin when VS owned half the cont we could go pull mags this way.

The distance people are engaging in most cases, with non-lock-on weapons, is close enough to tell, and basically if you Q spot and nothing you can be pretty sure it isn't an actual enemy. Maybe flack becomes an issue but you have to get a direct hit from flack for and it doesn't do explosive damage so friendly fire isn't that big a deal.

[Mordelicius]

Originally Posted by MrMak

Oh yeah random chance to fail and die. Thats is surely a fun afair game mechanic that will not cause more frustration than its worth......

There i nothing more awesome than perfectly eliminating the crew while they are repairing only to die due to something that is 100% random chance....

And getting your spawn Sunderer jacked in the middle of a fight is fun? The problem here is there are no downside. It's basically a free AV Mine/C4 but instead of just denying your enemy of a vehicular utility/weapon, you get it free as well. (Infils get no access to C4 right?).

If you check why ZOE and Harassers are universally lambasted as OP, it's because they have no downside.

Alternative suggestions:

1) See my last post in this thread

2) Hacking tool has a cartridge that costs infantry resources (100). Same percentage chance of failure as #1. Hence, every hack attempt has a cost.

3) Minigame - Skyrim's lockpicking is a good example of a good 'hacking' minigame. Every lock is different and it has degrees of difficulty.

4) Put the hacking tool in Primary weapon slot. Second slot pistols will be their killing weapon. I understand they will have the infinite cloak feature in the Infiltrator update, so that's another thing to balance.

[Mordelicius]

Originally Posted by kubacheski

The extra risk is that you're a soft target exposing yourself to an armored vehicle, usually with a crew in it.

I can see different vehicles taking longer to hack or even a vehicle cert so your ride can have hacking countermeasures to extend the time, which for balance will be countered by the cert of the hacker.

Same with C4 or AV Mine but they cost resources and you don't get a free vehicle in the end.

What about parked vehicles in Biolabs or Amp Station or the Octagon. One hundred percent success rate is too much.

The countermeasures are to run with infantry or drive your vehicle. The strategy of troop movement needs to change to compensate for hacking.
It's not drive your armored column up and sit still and shoot the base. It's a mixed arms game. I can't tell you how many times I've not hacked a vehicle due to troops around.
Or DRIVE. simply moving back and forth are not only a defensive mechanism against getting shot, it runs over nearby squishies. I can't tell you how many times I pulled out my REK only to be squashed underneath my target.
Mines? anyone? we used to ring the AMS with mines and turrets and motion sensors in PS1. There are issues with implementation in PS2, but people with eyes work fine too. Infils have to creep up on a vehicle and people can see that.

Infiltrators are quite strong with SMG/Cloak combo. I supposed they can be 'injured' (-50% HP) if Vehicles drive while they are hacking (esp when the hacking time is long). But what about parked vehicles? It's still OP in that regard. And again it cost nothing to hack. Cooldown, cost of each hacking and time of hacking should be all considered.

The general account hopping should take care of most of this. I mean SOE is supposed to be banning people for this. If it becomes prevalant, it will most likely be actively looked at.

That's the point, isn't it? Or no friendly bases. Hack a vehicle or 2 and drive to your front to deliver the goods.

Nope. I mean TR is attacking NC base. TR logs in as NC on that base. Drives vehicles to TR allies. They get free vehicles to use. NC alts relog back as TR. Now with two computers, one doesn't even need to relog. Now i'm not saying only TR will do it. All factions will do it.

Which is why they need to be protected. See above about troop movement.

Heavy Armor and Sundys are simply targets for hacks. But they do have people in them and should have people guarding them. Hacking a turret in a base where noone is is easy, hacking a moving target with guards is another situation completely.

My fav hack was when an enemy Reaver would be parked at a tower and you'd hack it, jump in and then blast the guy when he pops out of the door thinking he's going to run to the next tower. Sometimes you could get back in the tower before he spawns, but it's much more fun to get out and let him try to hack it back, only to deconstruct it when he tries.

First, a turret is free. It costs nothing. Vehicles cost resources. Secondly, turrets are immobile. Vehicles are mobile ( you can ride away with it). Lastly, so there has to be that sucker guarding the Sundy always, just in case What about the Biolab or Octagon fights? Attacking troops enter, defending Infiltrators comes out takes all the vehicles.

Even if I don't post these suggestions, if they just drop the hacks without any significant downside, the player outrage will be similar to the ZOE/Harassers and they will be forced to fix it anyway.

Why C4/AV mine a vehicle if one can just hack it at no resource cost, with no failure mechanism in place and you get a free vehicle in the end. Isn't that why Infils have no C4?

[kubacheski]

Or make it so the infil has to have a REK which can be setup to cost resources similar to C4/Mines. This will limit the number of hack attempts and with some situational awareness, lead to a lower number of successful hacks.

I wasn't aware that they said terms would be hackable to pull opposition's vehicles from oppositions bases. Oh wait...I just reread that....you're talking about cross faction multi-playing which is an exploit that has more "functinality" than hacking. This multi-play ability is due to the F2P model. Do you fix the multiplay exploit (which other exploits are based on also) or do you remove hacking vehicles which isnt' the root cause of what you're referring to?

Or to take it a step further - since you can stat-pad with multiple accounts, do you take out all stats from the game?

Why hate on a game mechanic that a flaw in the F2P model leverages?

[ringring]

Originally Posted by Wahooo

I've really tried to restrain from raging in this thread as well for this reason. So many things wrong with this suggested nerf it is hard for me to even hold my reasoning together enough to put it all down in logical fashion.



I think the IFF trouble is a consequence that got this back burnered as something that didn't need work on a long time ago. It CAN be a bit of a tough thing, but I don't think it is that bad. I know from the old PS1 empire tech events or even worse when an empire actually got enemy tech from cont locking someone else, if you logged on and didn't realize that it was VERY dissorrienting, but in the grand scheme of things not a big deal.

Increasing the role of the infil and giving them a hack tool, especially if it continues along the lines of current game play and could only be used uncloaked? The fun upside to the chaos created far out weighs the potential downside.

Hell for what ended up being 1/2 of the PS1's life it was just as easy to exploit alt accounts to get other empires weapons but it was never a problem because the benefit just wasn't worth the effort. Same will be here.

In PS1 I never found a difficulty telling the difference between a TR magrider and a VS one and the reason was the colour which was plain. If in ps2 a magrider/vanguard/prowler is hacked is there any reason why the como couldn't switch automatically to a one that is clearly empire specific? I doubt that there is.

On the other hand the issue with aircraft is different because identifiaction is much more reliant on the silhouette. You can see this with liberators, I've shot at friendly ones many times because the IFF didn't work quick enough.

[Helwyr]

Vehicle hacking would be a good first step to bring me back to this game, getting rid of all the radar BS would be more so.

Originally Posted by Mordelicius

Vehicle hacking is a low risk/high reward proposition and OP.

You're clearly someone that never played PS1 (which had vehicle hacking) and doesn't know what they're talking about. Posted in Red just for you.