News: Resolved - PS2 Region - Page 50

Raymac · 2012-02-23, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by jakaul

See, Ray, that's why this sort of thing doesn't hold water in my view. I know for a FACT that the European members of my outfit do not play with pings higher than 100-150, which is VERY similar to the ping I currently have to the PS1 server. Also, with BF3, I have extensive playtime on both US based and EU based servers, with little to marginal differences in ping. With that hard evidence, telling me that ping is a technical limitation to keep EU people off US servers is bullshit. In some cases, I've seen US players have higher ping than EU players on US servers.

You'd actually have more of a case for having a ping limiter.

I never said it was the primary reason, but it is a reason. Of course the primary reason involves money, but SOE isn't a gamer charity. Also, I'm glad that your buddies have pings that never go above 150, but even if I take your word as gospel with no exaggeration at all, there are plenty of players that have much higher pings than that. We all know it.

Besides, if you look at the FAQ, they say the primary reason is to give better service by being local as opposed to SOE which is way the hell out in San Diego. The technical aspect is a side effect, albiet a beneficial one.

Like I said, I hope they have an International server so you can play with your buddies. I think boycotting a company that hasn't done anything to you yet is a bit premature though.

Yago · 2012-02-23, 05:21 PM

Actually the game and accounts could still be SOE , it's only the shop that has to be ProShopkeepers in Europe .
The shop is the only revenue stream ?

Yago · 2012-02-23, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Raymac

I think boycotting a company that hasn't done anything to you yet is a bit premature though.

Not exactly boycotting , but I would need a pc upgrade before playing the game , and now I have a "wait and see" attitude , instead of the "be ready on day one" that I had before this news .

Vancha · 2012-02-23, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Yago

Actually the game and accounts could still be SOE , it's only the shop that has to be ProShopkeepers in Europe .
The shop is the only revenue stream ?

This is exactly what I hoped for when I first heard about PSS1 having anything to do with PS2. I'm not sure why we need accounts with them specifically, but I'm guessing it's for an optional subscription fee or something.

Edit: Plus, obviously I'm not as comfortable providing my credit card details to a third-party company. I'd be more likely to pay a subscription and buy things from SOE, despite their recent hiccups.

Shanesan · 2012-02-23, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Raymac

I never said it was the primary reason, but it is a reason. Of course the primary reason involves money, but SOE isn't a gamer charity. Also, I'm glad that your buddies have pings that never go above 150, but even if I take your word as gospel with no exaggeration at all, there are plenty of players that have much higher pings than that. We all know it.

Besides, if you look at the FAQ, they say the primary reason is to give better service by being local as opposed to SOE which is way the hell out in San Diego. The technical aspect is a side effect, albiet a beneficial one.

Like I said, I hope they have an International server so you can play with your buddies. I think boycotting a company that hasn't done anything to you yet is a bit premature though.

It's not even about money. It's based on money with false findings. It's something their little calculators typed up that sounds great on paper. However, as we all know, the results on this for many outfits is DISASTROUS. I don't think they really planned on 300+ person outfits boycotting their game because of this (which I would seriously consider if I were part of a multi-national outfit).

News of some of the hardest-of-hard PlanetSide outfits outright boycotting the game because of the national restrictions would be a massive tear on their bottom line.

It's also very simple to boycott this idea, and thusly this game, since they said it's region locked and thats the issue. Nobody really gives a shit about what company is running what in what location, as long as it's not region-locked. Which, at the moment it is.

jakaul · 2012-02-23, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Raymac

I never said it was the primary reason, but it is a reason. Of course the primary reason involves money, but SOE isn't a gamer charity. Also, I'm glad that your buddies have pings that never go above 150, but even if I take your word as gospel with no exaggeration at all, there are plenty of players that have much higher pings than that. We all know it.

Besides, if you look at the FAQ, they say the primary reason is to give better service by being local as opposed to SOE which is way the hell out in San Diego. The technical aspect is a side effect, albiet a beneficial one.

Like I said, I hope they have an International server so you can play with your buddies. I think boycotting a company that hasn't done anything to you yet is a bit premature though.

But that's the point, if you want to make the argument that you can't tolerate ping levels from European players on US servers, how can you justify ALLOWING US players that have high ping levels? Like I said, they have a MUCH, MUCH better case to enable servers with ping limiters, but they can't do that because they NEED large numbers of people. Instead, people giving everyone a red herring to chase as a way to justify an unpopular decision to those affected.

That being said, an international server would be completely acceptable to me. I've not boycotted PS2 by any means, I think what Dart was saying was that *if* we can't find a way to get our group on the same server, most of us likely won't play. Trust me, we're very excited for the game and we'll figure out a way to play on the same server.

Shogun · 2012-02-23, 05:40 PM

since the locked server issue is being worked on, what else bothers you on the faq and why? i don´t know if soe even takes the time to follow this community S.O.S thread any more (Shit Orbital Strike) but if they still do, let´s let them know what else is a problem!

for me it would be a real letdown if pro7 has the power to change anything in the shop!
if they decide to break the "not pay to win" model in any manner, or don´t pass over any new content from the usa to the eu players, or mess with the game in any way i could not even think of, they will not only lose the whole european ps1 community and have to start from scratch, but also will have to fight the old community that would rant on every forums about pro7 and/or soe for a long time...
just look how fast we hit 50 pages here, and this was only about a faq.
before anyone played the game.
imagine how passionate the players will get when they actually play the game and find out that the game has been castrated in any way for them while others can enjoy the game as intended.

Duddy · 2012-02-23, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by GTGD

We don't want an advantage or disadvantage, we want as close as to seamless gameplay as possible.

Ok, but you seem to want it at the expense of others. And when the alternative could make potentially make no difference to you, why then do you insist on such segregation?

That's what I don't get. By all means explain it to me. It's not that I need to vent per-se, did plenty of that yesterday, I just don't understand how you can't care about this.

The only answer I can come up with is: "Because it doesn't affect me." Which I don't think I need to say isn't a great attitude to take, though seems to be a prevailing one.

Nephilimuk · 2012-02-23, 05:46 PM

This is a response to one page back

On paper the partnership makes perfect sense as it introduces shared risk and reward allowing more to be done with less (gearing ratio ect). Win for SOE as they concentrate on what they see as core business activities (game development and hosting)

Burning the partner at this point would be stupid as they obviously want to expand. TH9 seem to be doing a good job in China but they are established. If Pro7 are fired up and want to make their mark then it could potentially be good for Euro players.

However delivery of this news to be honest amateurish at worst damn insulting to long term loyal customers. Posting a FAQ on a website and then saying nothing is pouring the fuel on the fire with one hand over the other which is holding the lit a match. The basic rules of customer engagement have been ignored as well as principles of change management. If these would have happened then the blow would have softened and the preverbal shit storm which is happening on forums would have been toned down. Treating paying customers as commodity items this way rather than individuals who are part of global communities is just bazaar. They are the stars of the show and the real life blood of a mmo. We increase the games life cycle by giving every day community driven human delivered content (personal relationships, rivalry, camaraderie, achievements, betrayal, love) which impacts all players on that server in one way or another. Splitting them up well lets see what the out come is.

I am sure a lot of people have known a long time in advance about this but been gaged by confidentiality agreements.

I only have 2 questions

1. Can I play with my friends across imposed commercial boundaries?
2. Will Europeans who have active subscriptions to PS1 be invited to play in the beta and treated the same way as anyone else in the PS community.

One last thing in PR cock ups like this one the typical tactic from any commercial body is to stop or control the contagion and buy for time to formulate a constructive response.

The ping bit is pure bollocks by the way and some people who will remain nameless need to read up on network basics. You know who you are.... (I don't mean devs)

Yago · 2012-02-23, 05:48 PM

There is no line that is crossed when ping becomes an advantage or disadvantage , its a greyscale .
Ping is within the nature of internet gaming , and it probably won't ever be limited as this limits the revenue .

If pings are a dealbreaker/heartbreaker for you , then go and lan party , because I can assure you , no matter how you cry , cash is king and talk is cheap .

Now STFU about ping .

Raymac · 2012-02-23, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by jakaul

But that's the point, if you want to make the argument that you can't tolerate ping levels from European players on US servers, how can you justify ALLOWING US players that have high ping levels? Like I said, they have a MUCH, MUCH better case to enable servers with ping limiters, but they can't do that because they NEED large numbers of people. Instead, people giving everyone a red herring to chase as a way to justify an unpopular decision to those affected.

It's not just a red herring. It's one way to avoid having 400 ping without having a ping limiter that will bounce anyone that get's a spike. Like I said a number of times before, it's not the primary reason so of course you can poke all the holes into it you want. This is more about money and localization than technical issues, but like I said, SOE is not a gamer charity.

GTGD · 2012-02-23, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Duddy

Ok, but you seem to want it at the expense of others. And when the alternative could make potentially make no difference to you, why then do you insist on such segregation?

That's what I don't get. By all means explain it to me. It's not that I need to vent per-se, did plenty of that yesterday, I just don't understand how you can't care about this.

The only answer I can come up with is: "Because it doesn't affect me." Which I don't think I need to say isn't a great attitude to take, though seems to be a prevailing one.

Obviously it would be preferable to have the alternative to make everyone happy. But if one had to be chosen, I''d argue for the gameplay because of all the new players. I think what a lot of people miss is that there are so many new fans that will want to play this game and won't tolerate more lag than on other FPS like Battlefield or CoD.

If PS2 doesn't cater to these new people who will populate the servers, there won't be much of a community. We'll have PS1 sized pops, which in the new game will feel much like PS1 does now: barren.

I think that from being used to 150+ pings, it's easy to dismiss the concern, but most PC gamers end up choosing games that feel right and then join a community, rather than following their community from game to game.

stordito · 2012-02-23, 06:05 PM

There is also the "Notify to EU Bureau for Personal Data Protection" option, wich as EU citizens we can file.

from European Union Data Protection Directive:

The right to privacy is a highly developed area of law in Europe. All the member states of the European Union (EU) are also signatories of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR). Article 8 of the ECHR provides a right to respect for one's "private and family life, his home and his correspondence," subject to certain restrictions. The European Court of Human Rights has given this article a very broad interpretation in its jurisprudence.

In 1980, in an effort to create a comprehensive data protection system throughout Europe, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) issued its “Recommendations of the Council Concerning Guidelines Governing the Protection of Privacy and Trans-Border Flows of Personal Data.”[2] The seven principles governing the OECD’s recommendations for protection of personal data were:

1. Notice—data subjects should be given notice when their data is being collected;
2. Purpose—data should only be used for the purpose stated and not for any other purposes;
3. Consent—data should not be disclosed without the data subject’s consent;
4. Security—collected data should be kept secure from any potential abuses;
5. Disclosure—data subjects should be informed as to who is collecting their data;
6. Access—data subjects should be allowed to access their data and make corrections to any inaccurate data; and
7. Accountability—data subjects should have a method available to them to hold data collectors accountable for following the above principles.[3]

here: http://www.oecd.org/document/18/0,23..._1_1_1,00.html

It's already happened that EU punished some US company for moving data to third parties without informing and gathering the consensus from the costumers.
We are talking about xxx.000 € fees...
EU has a very strict policy on this kind of stuff.

Loving Blu&yellow right now...

jakaul · 2012-02-23, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Raymac

It's not just a red herring. It's one way to avoid having 400 ping without having a ping limiter that will bounce anyone that get's a spike. Like I said a number of times before, it's not the primary reason so of course you can poke all the holes into it you want. This is more about money and localization than technical issues, but like I said, SOE is not a gamer charity.

Ray, I've only been arguing the technical point. Which IS the red herring. :P

BTW, I fully understand that this was most likely a money deal from the business department (they seem to love doing dumb things that look good on paper in large corps). I know these sort of decisions from my own professional experience.

jakaul · 2012-02-23, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by GTGD

Obviously it would be preferable to have the alternative to make everyone happy. But if one had to be chosen, I''d argue for the gameplay because of all the new players. I think what a lot of people miss is that there are so many new fans that will want to play this game and won't tolerate more lag than on other FPS like Battlefield or CoD.

If PS2 doesn't cater to these new people who will populate the servers, there won't be much of a community. We'll have PS1 sized pops, which in the new game will feel much like PS1 does now: barren.

I think that from being used to 150+ pings, it's easy to dismiss the concern, but most PC gamers end up choosing games that feel right and then join a community, rather than following their community from game to game.

As stated earlier, you realize that a large number of BF3/CoD folks will be part of multi-national groups as well, right? And again, if the technical concern was the impact of high ping levels, a ping limit option is the true way to address that since locale is no guarantee of low ping...