Religion

[Figment]

Originally Posted by elfailo

Indeed, and belief follows, if at least you don't stop thinking at "I don't know". When you stop there and consider both options equally likely, then you are truly in the middle. Don't tell me you or anyone else here really is though. I just don't buy it. After 67 pages? No way. Especially not Guru, he's just not stupid enough.

Originally Posted by Figment

Even for an agnostic, it is very unlikely one is exactly in the middle and gives both sides equal credulity.

I could easily interpret your analogy the following way: Even though he already believes there are no wolves very strongly, he keeps trolling the boy by pretending he can still be convinced. He can't and he knows this because he's the more rational of the two, but he keeps giving the boy false hope anyway, so the boy keeps trying forever like the idiot he is.

Frankly, just force electroconvulsion therapy. Figure out where the God-circuit is located and then shock that shit out

That depends whether or not the boy actually believes there are wolves himself. Since of course, the boy is trolling out of boredom (sound familiar? )

Here's an even funnier "Boy who cries wolf" comparison, that's really more about fun among theists:


Imagine for a second there are **** waiting for a Messiah. A certain group of **** screams "we found one! He's called Jesus!". The other **** check him out, are disappointed he doesn't fight Romans and don't believe it.

Then the next group of semi-**** yells "Look! We found one too! He's called Mohammed and this one DOES fight!". The remainder of the **** are disappointed they want to take their land by force and don't believe them.

Imagine for the funsies that eventually an actual Messiah comes along and now the **** don't want to hear about yet another one. Certainly not if he (or she!) is critical at their treatment of Palestinians. Of couse, the other groups already HAVE found what they believe to be their Messiah and they too ignore the new, actual one.

Then of course the agnostics and atheists are the only ones who for the sake of argument would explore the possibilities of this person being the next Messiah, but being fed up with all the bogus claims and mindless followers they've encountered till then, are not just skeptical, but extremely pissed off at this Messiah being a bit overdue to remove the idio... faithful believers from the world.



And thanks to that we get to keep argueing on the interwebs! I mean, that whole reaping thing so many zealot Americans believe in would put a real downer on internet discussions, everyone would be reasonable.

[Deezy]

Deist. Sup?

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Deezy

Deist. Sup?

Hi!

Found evidence yet?

(you're now officialy part of the discussion! <3)

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by Deezy

Deist. Sup?

At least I can respect deism as being possible, even if unlikely. Just because the existence of god can't currently be directly disproved doesn't mean that most religious definitions of god aren't fucking idiotic

[Effective]

Originally Posted by Baneblade

Is Schrodinger's Cat alive or dead?

I believe he is alive.

I believe he is dead.

I think he is alive.

I think he is dead.

I don't know.



You can't open the box.

I had a cat named Schrodinger

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Baneblade

Is Schrodinger's Cat alive or dead?

I believe he is alive.

I believe he is dead.

I think he is alive.

I think he is dead.

I don't know.



You can't open the box.

Oh it can be verified:

Submerge the box for a week in water, quite sure the outcome is death.

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Figment

Oh it can be verified:

Submerge the box for a week in water, quite sure the outcome is death.

But you won't actually know until you open the box. Reason and logic would lead you to the conclusion, but it is not a certainty until you have observed it.

[Vecha]

Originally Posted by Xyntech

At least I can respect deism as being possible, even if unlikely. Just because the existence of god can't currently be directly disproved doesn't mean that most religious definitions of god aren't fucking idiotic

Wish most people took that level headed approach.

I respect Atheists...until they start acting condescending. Just as much as I respect Christians/Islam/Jewish/even Scientology until they become condescending .

Just don't be an ass about it.

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Vecha

Wish most people took that level headed approach.

I respect Atheists...until they start acting condescending. Just as much as I respect Christians/Islam/Jewish/even Scientology until they become condescending .

Just don't be an ass about it.

Pretty much.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Vecha

I respect Atheists...until they start acting condescending. Just as much as I respect Christians/Islam/Jewish/even Scientology until they become condescending.

You'll find this view of respect is not shared by everyone. The concept that respect is earned, and not expected is prevalent. You listed Scientology as a something you respect. I don't want to appear condescending, but it's going to seem that way, but respecting cults like that is a bit naive. Not that all religions do it, but I have a hard time respecting groups that indoctrinate children to hate other groups or believe they live a life of guilt and promise a better life after death in return for a lifetime of worship. It's kind of creepy when viewed from an Atheist point of view on the outside and is essentially nearly unrecoverable brainwashing.

At the very least you might believe they have a right to free speech, but respecting them is going too far.

[Vecha]

Originally Posted by Sirisian

You'll find this view of respect is not shared by everyone. The concept that respect is earned, and not expected is prevalent. You listed Scientology as a something you respect. I don't want to appear condescending, but it's going to seem that way, but respecting cults like that is a bit naive. Not that all religions do it, but I have a hard time respecting groups that indoctrinate children to hate other groups or believe they live a life of guilt and promise a better life after death in return for a lifetime of worship. It's kind of creepy when viewed from an Atheist point of view on the outside and is essentially nearly unrecoverable brainwashing.

At the very least you might believe they have a right to free speech, but respecting them is going too far.

That respect has a limit. If they treat other people shitty in the name of their religion, then they lose that respect.

I have no respect for Christians that wish to see all homosexuals burn in Hell.

Or those who use their religion to defend their bombing of clinics/buildings or killing people.

Maybe Scientology was a bad example. I really don't know much about their group...expect something about a dead author, and aliens, and a space ship(all this information was from South Park). So, yes, a bit ignorant when it comes to Scientology.

I do feel respect is earned. I guess "condescending" is too simplified. I feel if someone feels they have the right to end another life, or to control another life, than they have to be at least slightly condescending.

But, you are right, there is a limit to the respect I have.

Overall, I feel religion should be a personal choice, not a call to indoctrinate your fellow man.

Talk about. Sure. Don't guilt them, and definitely don't throw 'em in a van and take them to Sunday school.

[Zolan]

Originally Posted by Deezy

Deist. Sup?

[Deezy]

Originally Posted by Figment

Hi!

Found evidence yet?

(you're now officialy part of the discussion! <3)

Evidence of what?

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Baneblade

But you won't actually know until you open the box. Reason and logic would lead you to the conclusion, but it is not a certainty until you have observed it.

If you know he is in there he is dead, because the knowledge of a cat's extend at breathing and going without food and water exists.

The only alternative is that he's not in there.


The knowledge can be verified by opening the box, but it is a predictable outcome therefore already known.

Originally Posted by Deezy

Evidence of what?

Considering you believe in an intelligent off-world creator that never interacted with mankind, surely you've found some evidence that lead you to this conclusion as you are pro-observation and pro-reason?

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Figment

If you know he is in there he is dead, because the knowledge of a cat's extend at breathing and going without food and water exists.

The only alternative is that he's not in there.

The knowledge can be verified by opening the box, but it is a predictable outcome therefore already known.

Well yeah, but that isn't really the point I was making. Schrodinger's Cat is an example of quantum theory: The idea is that the cat is both dead and alive at the instant you inject toxic gas (instant kill) in the box, with no idea on which one is the truth until you open the box. Because to know the outcome of that instant you must observe it.

But then observing alone is also theorized to affect the outcome. Quantum theory and religion have a lot in common.