Planetside Idea Lab - Page 6

Hayoo · 2004-05-21, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by EarlyDawn

[Edit: wait wait wait. If in the example where I was /pinvited by Smokejumper, wouldn't I be 1B, being that I'm leading the second platoon in the squad? I think we need a flowchart for the system =P

No, your squad would still be 4th squad for as long as you remained in that Task Force. 1st squad is already Sporkfire's unit.

I know it's not like the military where there's always a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for each platoon, but the confusion would be too great since people would be forced to say the entire name of "1st squad, A Platoon move to waypoint. 1st squad, B Platoon hold up," just for someone to know who was addressing whom. It's much easier to say "1st squad, move to the market. 4th squad stay home, 9th squad have bread and butter, 11th squad have none."

So, once you join the task force, your number is set at that and only adds an A or B or C or whatever depending on any platoons you join or create. Sure, a 26/F is possible (26th squad, F Platoon), but all I have to identify is a "26/F" rather than a 1/B, 1/C, 1/D, 3/E.

(note: The reason there is still a 12 is because 9th, 10th, and 11th Squads have left. Any new squads joining the TF will take those numbers.)

I'm debating whether the Command Squad members that help the TF Leader should be able to create divisions within the TF for even greater flexibility. That's something I'll have to discuss with Zeus, since he and I did the TF idea together.

Originally Posted by EarlyDawn

BTW, any plans to explain the mission functions on the command interface?

Eventually, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms to deal with.

Hayoo · 2004-05-23, 12:36 PM

Here are some details on the Maglev Lines shown on the big Oshur map near the top of page 5 of this topic:

The Maglev: Design Overview

There are two lines with two trains each, running from a port base near a gate in the north west and to a port base near a gate in the south east, crisscrossing one another near the Capitol. The trains go back and forth, one starting from one end, the second starting from the other and they travel as far as the next station and then back.

Maglevs are a means to quickly get the heavy equipment from the Warpgate to the front, so commanders would be smart to capture zones with Maglev stations for their empire and deny them to the enemy.

Trains can only travel between the two friendly stations at each end of a line.
1) Below you have Stations A through D.
2) If TR takes station D, then the NC maglev can only go as far as Station C and back.
3) Once the TR capture station C, they now have a Maglev connection of their own.
4) If the TR manage to work their way around to the NC rear and capture station A, then the NC would have no connections and the Maglev would be inactive.

Figure A: Capturing zones with stations

The tracks are like monorail struts spaced apart at intervals that the trains travel along. The sequence of rise to tree level above the ground. This allows for passengers and vehicles to bail safely while traveling. The struts lower as they reach a station so that the train is about level with the second story of buildings.

Figure B: Side View

The train itself is made up of 4 or 5 cars: 2 pilot cars at both ends, 1 passenger car, and 1 or 2 vehicles cars. Passenger and vehicle space, like the HART, is unlimited.

Figure C: Front view

The Maglev Stations: Boarding

The stations are like the HART centers. There is a main lobby on the bottom floor with some lockers and stairs leading up to the second floor with the boarding door. Outside a vehicle ramp leads up the side of the station to a loading door, much like the Tech Plant vehicle ramp, but steeper and shorter. A timer shows above each door as to when the next train is due to arrive and leave.

A player runs through the door and warps to a holding area. Same with the vehicle. To leave the holding area, you simply press "G". When the train pulls in (if it's the end station in the line), it waits on a timer and then pulls away again, taking the new passengers and vehicles with it.

If it's a station midway along the line, a timer above the doors states the trains arrivial time. A player runs through the door, warps to the holding area, and as the train passes, grabs the new passengers along for the ride. A person can stay on the train indefinately, or can bail at anytime along the route by pressing "Alt-G."

The Maglev Trains: Defenses

Each Pilot Car has two turrets for defense that can be destroyed by enemy fire, an AA turret of dual 20mm, and a turret with a heavy calibur gun, like a 75mm. This is for defensive purposes only as a train cannot actually be destroyed, since idiots would sit in wait with tons of aircraft or explosives to get some easy kills. So the only legitimite targets where trains are concerned are the zones where the stations are based. So the train guns' usefulness comes at arrivial points to give covering fire to disembarking or loading troops and vehicles.

Now the risk in traveling by Maglev is if a station is captured before a train can get there or get to the next station, the train immediately slows down, kicks all passengers from the cars, and deconstructs. This forces the passengers to get to their destination as best they can and who knows if enemy aircraft were tailing the train as this was happening. A new train will appear at the next friendly station and begin the back and forth travel of the line once again.

To man a turret, you run over to the gunner's circles in the Maglev station. If there is a spot open as the train arrives or passes by, the player will automatically be put in the turret. If no spot is available the player will be put in the passenger matrix. If the player does not wish to be in the gunner's spot anymore, he simply presses "G" while the train is moving and he will remove himself from the turrets and into the passenger car matrix, although no one is able to take his place unless someone at the next station has selected the spot.

Comparisons for Maglevs and Lodestar/Galaxy:

Maglev pros: undestroyable, defendable, quick, free means of transport from one gate to another.
Maglev cons: linear, may not be going in the direction you wish to, can be lost through territory loss, predicable routes.
Lodestar pros: precision drops, direct travel, ability to repair, freedom of movement, can be stealthy.
Lodestar cons: destroyable, requires special cert, no defenses.

EarlyDawn · 2004-05-23, 12:44 PM

That's pretty awesome.

Is there any corolation between controlling the urban areas and the maglev system? If there isn't I think there should be.

Now, what classifies as a Maglev "zone"? One of the urban villages? A maglev station?

Hayoo · 2004-05-23, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by EarlyDawn

That's pretty awesome.

Is there any corolation between controlling the urban areas and the maglev system? If there isn't I think there should be.

Yes, each station is part of the Urban Area in a zone. Capture the zone and you aquire the supply depot with its garage, repair silo, and equipment terminals, the zone radar, and the maglev station if any are in that territory.

I have since changed zones to be adjacent-capture-only. Now enemy units must work their way behind enemy lines to capture such vital zones.

EarlyDawn · 2004-05-23, 12:52 PM

Oh, that's what you were refering to when you said your urban areas had to form a link back to a warpgate or else they switch back unless being actively occupied? How does one actually capture a village? I think at one time you mentioned a "capture and hold" system a la the Battlefield series, but it would be strange to have a special forces team hiking to a base and suddenly have a village swap to their control, totally blowing their cover..

Besides the supply depot, what other kinds of buildings lie in the larger villages?

Hayoo · 2004-05-23, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by EarlyDawn

Oh, that's what you were refering to when you said your urban areas had to form a link back to a warpgate or else they're switch back unless being actively occupied?

Well, that was the original concept when you could capture any zone anywhere. The revert-timer was supposed to check the ninja-hackers. But I discovered that if you had a coordinated group of people you could cap all zones at once across the whole continent while having them connected back to a warpgate, thus bypassing the revert-timer. ...sneaky bastards. So I changed it to adjacent-capture only, force players to create real frontlines rather than take advantage of the "Market Garden" scenerios I was trying to allow.

So now, to capture a zone with a Maglev station not next in the chain, a force would have to gradually work their way around to the enemy rear one zone at a time.

TheN00b · 2004-05-23, 12:58 PM

Thes are just bloody brilliant. Spork should be ashamed that he hasn't hired you yet.

EarlyDawn · 2004-05-23, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Hayoo

Well, that was the original concept when you could capture any zone anywhere. The revert-timer was supposed to check the ninja-hackers. But I discovered that if you had a coordinated group of people you could cap all zones at once across the whole continent while having them connected back to a warpgate, thus bypassing the revert-timer. ...sneaky bastards. So I changed it to adjacent-capture only, force players to create real frontlines rather than take advantage of the "Market Garden" scenerios I was trying to allow.

So now, to capture a zone with a Maglev station not next in the chain, a force would have to gradually work their way around to the enemy rear one zone at a time.

I see. Where does ownership start with the new system? At the warpgate, or from a base you control? Does village ownership actually control continental lock, or just where you can pod in if you're able to?

Hayoo · 2004-05-23, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by TheN00b

Thes are just bloody brilliant. Spork should be ashamed that he hasn't hired you yet.

Well these are just ideas. I don't know how hard it is to program or how much of a memory footprint this would land on all the players, especially the dial-ups, although I try to come up with systems that seem flexible enough to be scaled up or down.

I doubt any of this stuff could be done anytime soon, but one can hope something similar to these concepts could become a reality in a MMO game someday.

Hayoo · 2004-05-23, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by EarlyDawn

I see. Where does ownership start with the new system? At the warpgate, or from a base you control? Does village ownership actually control continental lock, or just where you can pod in if you're able to?

The urban areas only control HART drops, the radar coverage, and maglev lines if any. Even if you captured all of the zones, you still have the bases to contend with. In the new zone system, players are still able to HART directly into their SOI outside the walls of a base, to give defenders a chance to reclaim their urban areas.

To simulate a supply line, zones can only be captured next to a direct-link Warp Gate, to a base with a lattice link back to the sanctuary or to a capitol you control. Zones cannot be captured next to a Broadcast Warpgate, for example, it must be a hard link.

EarlyDawn · 2004-05-23, 01:11 PM

Well, there aren't any lattice links back to sanct anymore. Hopefully, the battle islands will fix this, but how, with the current warpgate system, would you adress this? Any warpgate with a lattice link to a capitol?

Hayoo · 2004-05-23, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by EarlyDawn

Well, there aren't any lattice links back to sanct anymore. Hopefully, the battle islands will fix this, but how, with the current warpgate system, would you adress this? Any warpgate with a lattice link to a capitol?

LOL. Whoops, brain fart. I meant to say: "To simulate a supply line, zones can only be captured next to a direct-link Warp Gate, to a base with a lattice link back through a warpgate or to a capitol you control. Zones cannot be captured next to a Broadcast Warpgate, for example, it must be a hard link."

Basically, if you own a capitol, that can be your supply line to capture zones.
If you own a base on the other side of a warpgate that links directly to the gate you are on, that can be your supply line to capture zones.

"Any warpgate with a lattice link to a capitol?"

That works as well. It's debatable whether to just have Capitols as origins of supply lines because it may give unfair advantages to one side or the other.

Update:

Now by adding port bases (each one having a lattice link out into the ocean to sea gates) you can have Normandy-type situations if Naval vessels are included. An attacking force has captured a sea zone and notices it links to a port base on another continent. So they load up heavy vehicles, landing craft, support aircraft, and D-Day the crap out of it.

After securing the base, they can then start capturing adjacent zones, working their way inland from the beaches to deny the enemy HART landing areas and maglev stations. They'll also target resource-point rich zones to increase their Empire Tech Level back in the Sanc, since each zone's production center provides a different amount. It's the equivelant of rushing into an industrial area to capture it...that is why on the map you see the forces bypassing bases for the time being to capture zones near the capitol. Those zones are high-yield areas that they want to deny enemy access to.

EarlyDawn · 2004-05-23, 01:42 PM

I love this for the simple reason that it increases continental strategy without getting rid of the lattice system. (last I heard, you said that the lattice system still controlled base captures, not Zones of Control).

As for the capitol/base conflict for supplies, I'm beginning to see your point on regular bases. Attackers beginning an attack on a continent would be out of supply until they got the capitol, and by that time most of the heavy fighting is almost over.

What other kinds of buildings are you suggesting besides the supply depot for villages?

Rbstr · 2004-05-23, 01:50 PM

yeah this is a great idea. Maybe this is part of the big surprize for the continents

Hayoo · 2004-05-23, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by EarlyDawn

I love this for the simple reason that it increases continental strategy without getting rid of the lattice system. (last I heard, you said that the lattice system still controlled base captures, not Zones of Control).?

Correct, zones would be independent of the lattice to avoid the zerg dominating too quickly and starving out a base before it has a chance to defend itself.

Originally Posted by EarlyDawn

What other kinds of buildings are you suggesting besides the supply depot for villages

I'll eventually start refering to these collections of buildings as "outposts" because the name urban or villages evokes images of civilians or colonization, of which the history of Planetside has said nothing and even hints that they were all military or scientists or something. Kinda sad, but oh well.

Urban Area Buildings

Admin (Control Console) Building:

Houses the Admin Terminal that governs control over the territory. If the outpost only has one building, then this terminal is located in the Supply Depot, of which each zone always has one.
This building may also house other types of terminals like a News, Zone Status, or Outfit terminals if the devs see fit to add such things.

Supply Depot:

Garage for holding stored vehicles, captured vehicles, or special vehicles provided by Empire Tech Levels. The garage is arranged like the Tech Plant vehicle area, except on ground level.
Equipment Terminals that only provide Agile and Suppressor level equipment if no connection to a friendly supply line exists. Otherwise they allow MA, HA, SA, AV, etc.
Lockers for storing weapons and equipment.
Repair Silo that only functions if a connection to a friendly supply line exists. I'm debating whether this requires connection to a benefit-linked base.
Zone Radar, as describe previously, covers zone airspace.
Admin Terminal room, if no Admin Building is present.
Landing Pads, large enough for a galaxy to land safely and take on vehicles.
NTU storage Silo, for forward area storing of nanites.

Generator Building:

Generator Terminal - if this is hacked, it temporarily diables the radar, repair silo, heavy equipment from equipment terminals, ntu silo, and garage. Comes back online after timer. Hack indicator does not show up till a few minutes later.
Generator Core - if destroyed, same effect as hacking generator but elements stay down till repaired. Power-out indicator immediately shows up on map.
An urban area (a.k.a Outpost) does not require NTUs to function, only a working genrator and, for some equipment, a link back to a base or capitol.

Production Plant:

Steadily produces resource points that get shunted back through a secure supply line to increase Empire Tech Levels.
This building can be made up to look like a mine, manufacturing plant, hydroponics plant, food processing plant, mineral processing, gas manipulation, energy research, etc.

Maglev Station:

Maglev loading ramp allows vehicles to enter train
Maglev boarding area allows players to enter train
Lockers for storing weapons and equipment
Possible location for goods terminals

Generic Building shell:

Can be more than one.
Usually two stories tall with balconies, perhaps with catwalks to buildings across the road, etc.
Locations for unique environments to fight in such as a medical station with med terminals, or a lounge, or even a bathroom setting (True Lies bathroom battle anyone?)
Possible location for goods terminals. These terminals do not run out of power, can be hacked, and provide an alternate source of basic equipment such as ammo, medkits, stimpaks, engi juice, med juice, etc. Kind of like a PX store in a box. To be used exlusively with salary system.

Originally I had a basic underground sewer system that could only be hacked from the inside (i.e. a cloaker gets into town, drops down a manhole, takes the sewage tunnel to the edge of the urban area, and opens the drainage door for the waiting troops). But with the difficulties associated with creating more of those kinds of maps, I have opted to put those ideas aside.