Punkbuster? ohh no - Page 6

Wargrim · 2012-03-10, 05:42 PM

EAs post - release support is absolute crap. But in the MMO world, you can not afford that, no players means no money. I am pretty sure that if the anti cheat system is punkbuster based, it would have to be a customised punkbuster version specifically for the game. I cant imagine simply slapping it on and thats it, because, well, PB simply doesnt work at stopping cheaters.

Highwind · 2012-03-10, 06:27 PM

I think the idea of a hardware hash is on the right track for preventing repeat hackers due to F2P, but it would only be part of the many tools along with Punkbuster they will need in their suite of anti-hack tools. Harddrive ids/serials can be changed in my experience, or at least the OS can be fooled using tools leading to software security relying on it to be fooled in most cases. Mixing in other serials and hardware configs, ie memory amounts, Max Harddrive Size, Motherboard model/serial etc could create a powerful ID for a persons machine. Using a server side list of banned unique "machines" combined with common IP related controls it seems like at the very least they should be able to removed a VERY high percent of hacking offenders with a low reconnect rate due to trying to make extra accounts.

Another factor to consider is with a modern engine it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that the devs would be able better track the player's interactions in the server logs. With good game design they "should" be able to put hard caps on damage output for every weapon. An example would be things like a rifle can't deal more then X damage 'period' with any one shot to any target "says the server" avoiding server killing spams of damage before work on those types hacks can even begin. Putting the right amounts of lightweight checks like that would avoid a lot of headaches. Another example any player movement faster then X while on foot would flag the character for review by a Dev, either for bug fixing or hacking control. Just being informed will help solve so many issues around hacking.

If the right systems are developed now, hacking CAN be stopped, the Devs will just have to get ahead of the issue, which I believe they are. There is no reason that there should be the kind of doom and gloom there is in this thread. People WILL try to hack, it doesn't mean they will succeed, and if they do they will be stopped likely before anyone is really hurt by it.

I am all for second chances too. If you are accused of hacking you should be able to review why your account got banned and appeal if reasonable. Unfair banning is worse then letting a hacker run free imo.

Forsaken One · 2012-03-10, 08:42 PM

I'm going to say this for lulz. Even in PS1 there is still some cheaters but its not all that bad because not much they can do cheat wise.

The only things cheaters can aimbot is reflex's. Fix that at its core by making the game take intelligence over reflex's.

You can hack/cheat/etc anything a Monkey can do. (pressing buttons, mouse commands.) but there hasn't been a cheat invented that can "take over" intelligence in a game.

dsi · 2012-03-11, 01:41 AM

Punkbuster: Content, for hackers. Menace, for everyone else.

Skitrel · 2012-03-11, 03:05 AM

Originally Posted by Forsaken One

I'm going to say this for lulz. Even in PS1 there is still some cheaters but its not all that bad because not much they can do cheat wise.

The only things cheaters can aimbot is reflex's. Fix that at its core by making the game take intelligence over reflex's.

You can hack/cheat/etc anything a Monkey can do. (pressing buttons, mouse commands.) but there hasn't been a cheat invented that can "take over" intelligence in a game.

Headshot hitboxes are in PS2? Makes aimbots far more sinister. As for intelligence, no amount of game knowledge or "intelligence" defeats aimbotting combined with wallhacking. The ability to know where everything is at all times as well as shoot it, perfectly. You're joking if you think hacking isn't a ludicrous advantage over even the best players.

Sifer2 · 2012-03-12, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Headshot hitboxes are in PS2? Makes aimbots far more sinister. As for intelligence, no amount of game knowledge or "intelligence" defeats aimbotting combined with wallhacking. The ability to know where everything is at all times as well as shoot it, perfectly. You're joking if you think hacking isn't a ludicrous advantage over even the best players.

Yeah that's the saddest thing. The changes they are making with faster TTK, Headshots, and possibly one shot Sniper are all going to make hackers all the more powerful. Plus Free Accounts. Unless their Anti-Cheat strategy is really damn good hackers are going to break this game hard. And with them even considering a crappy service like Punkbuster it worries the hell out of me they are not taking this seriously.

Top Sgt · 2012-03-13, 07:23 AM

added a video to my original top post... Shows exactly why I fear using punkbuster only as the anti cheat. And remember BF3 is actually a paid game.. imagine how bad it will be on a totally free game.

hopefully there is more behind the scenes they are not telling us.

Effective · 2012-03-13, 07:28 AM

at the very least, I can always find the dumb cheaters.

NewSith · 2012-03-13, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by Top Sgt

added a video to my original top post... Shows exactly why I fear using punkbuster only as the anti cheat. And remember BF3 is actually a paid game.. imagine how bad it will be on a totally free game.

hopefully there is more behind the scenes they are not telling us.

For this sole reason people invented votekick and voteban.

Speaking of the devil:
PS2 votekick system: If a player get X amount of /report's by his own empire he should be kicked from the server for 1-3 hours.

IronMole · 2012-03-13, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by NewSith

For this sole reason people invented votekick and voteban.

Speaking of the devil:
PS2 votekick system: If a player get X amount of /report's by his own empire he should be kicked from the server for 1-3 hours.

Worst idea ever...

NewSith · 2012-03-13, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by IronMole

Worst idea ever...

Why? I mean there's no point in mass-griefing somebody from his own empire. Not like it doesn't leave any holes for abusement, but it will be effective.

IronMole · 2012-03-13, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by NewSith

Why? I mean there's no point in mass-griefing somebody from his own empire. Not like it doesn't leave any holes for abusement, but it will be effective.

That's exactly the reason why... It will not be effective the way you think it will. It's too open to abuse just to make someone be forced to log off.

The only way is the usual /report or /appeal and have active GM's who respond quickly...

Giving players power such as that is asking nothing but trouble...

SKYeXile · 2012-03-13, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by NewSith

Why? I mean there's no point in mass-griefing somebody from his own empire. Not like it doesn't leave any holes for abusement, but it will be effective.

i love it how your argument is there is "no point" umm did you forget the part where you're kicking somebody from the server for 1-3 hours?

Patek · 2012-03-13, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by IronMole

Giving players power such as that is asking nothing but trouble...

yup

Rabb · 2012-03-13, 09:23 AM

I've run allot of gaming servers in my time and some of them have been very popular during the time they where running. I have never had a problem with hackers on any of my servers running pb. The problem is I would say at least 50% probably more, of the admins out there have no idea how to configure pb and there servers properly. I think half the problem with pb's reputation is that people think its set and forget it's not. Pb give you as an admin the tools to protect your server form hackers. Its up to you to use them correctly. A good server admin will have a tight pb config with all the cvar & md5 checks and multiple ban list streaming. Nothing can ever fully replace active admins though.