News: Roadmap Resource Revamp & Continental Lattice Updated - Page 6

augrunt · 2013-07-20, 09:26 PM

I'm sorry guys but being a PlanetSide 1 veteran, I gotta say the only way I can possibly see this working is if you had the ANT back in its previous role.

Driving ANTs was pretty fun to me, and nothing will ever reach the level of thrill I got driving an emergency defenceless "shoot me" target into a base with 10% energy levels whilst it was being blockaded by the enemy.
Also the GAL Ant Drops were EPIC.

Unfortunately, all I can do is describe it and I've talked about the ANT countless times since playing PlanetSide 2 with my outfit and how I wished the old resource system is back, so I was pleasantly informed yesterday that it seems we may be taking steps to get us to that level of meta-gaming.

So I think it would be a silly idea to have it as a module that either a Sunderer (which already does a lot more than it should) or a Harasser or what-have-you could equip. It needs to be its own separate vehicle ala PS1 because this would force teamwork and co-operation as well as bring back some nostalgia to a game that desperately needs it. Slowly, the game is beginning to look more PS1-esque, and that makes me very happy... and I think bringing the ANT back but with a graphic overhaul and its Nanite harvesting capabilities (Auraxium Mines/Crystals? What? like Tiberium? seriously?) from the continental (and future Geo-Warpgates) would be another 3 steps in the right direction.

Baneblade · 2013-07-20, 11:35 PM

Introduce the Lodestar and make one of the payload configurations a drop-able ANT Storage Tank.

Rat · 2013-07-20, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

Attackers shouldnt be fed a steady stream of resources. In this instance I think the devs are fucking up again. Attackers should have to bring resources with them and be susceptibe to becoming resource starved just like the defenders.

Not a bad point, maybe they could implement some type of diminishing returns system

EvilNinjadude · 2013-07-20, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by Baneblade

Introduce the Lodestar and make one of the payload configurations a drop-able ANT Storage Tank.

Whoa whoa whoa, didn't we ever argue for the Galaxy to be able to transport vehicles at the cost of passenger count? When the F did we lose sight of that? I can't remember the last time we talked about it!

torokf · 2013-07-21, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Attackers are supplied by adjacent linked friendly facilities. If none then income is zero.

simple question, badly explained:
Will lattice be changed in anyway to account for this new feature?
because as of now it's often practically impossible to cut off a facility from all it's friendly hexes, because "outposts" (the nearest hexes to facilities) aren't linked with one and eachother, maybe you will link them with lattice? but people won't be able to avoid the facility and going towards other hexes before owning the facility which those outposts are linked to? i don't know if i explained myself, here's the worst pics ever

anything like this at all?

Carbon Copied · 2013-07-21, 05:41 AM

@ Obstuction: Yeah I can see the time implementations of 2 additional vehicles but personally I think it either needs to be that rather than reverting back to using the Sunderer to deploy a "spawn capsule" or sacrifice the troop carrying for the ANT module bolt on. The very major work you're doing with new vehicles is the vehicle art, any mechanics (such as spawning) are cut out and just transferred to the new model (albeit with tweaks/bastardisation).

Something to consider though is the possibility it's more system resource stressful as it has to track the AMS spawn in time with the vehicle, then it needs to track where the player deployed it and keep it tracked/deployed as he drives off.
Higby did mention when people kept asking for the ability to swap / change upgrades on vehicles at the re-supply towers that because the vehicle it spawns at the terminal is a new entity built with A,C,D,E it has to reload the whole configuration and you can't just replace A with B on the fly and keep C,D,E etc. - therefore no way to re-supply your version of the deployable sunderer until it times out, is destroyed or you get bored and re-spawn it costing you more resources. Just a game limitation. Having "new" vehicles works around the limitation.

Also you say from the attacking side that it should be indistinguishable but it's kind of counter productive if you're in a public convoy and you don't know which vehicles you should be protecting - ok organized outfits are going to know as they'll be doing their thing but that's not the singular make up of the convoy (hopefully) that's rolling with you. The fact that you know you have these visually "that is an AMS/ANT" high value targets should make you more aware of the ESF suicide bomber threat (which with the resource revamp I think will diminish considering resources will play a bigger roll), but equally it should be a "punishing" affect on the convoy for not dealing or bringing the right tools to the party to deal with threat x.

I don't think the Sunderer has to lose all of it's support role once it's broken a line - the AMS module could be replaced by a "Terminal Module"; you can't spawn at it (that's for the AMS vehicle) but you can still pull classes and change loadouts etc. I think it gives the option for the Sunderer to take on a more offensive/defensive support role maybe even extending it to things like bubble shielding making it that FOB command type vehicle - getting it to work with other vehicles so maybe you deploy this bubble shield and after the AMS can park next to it, which results in risk and reward but I'm wandering off topic there...

Either way I think it'd be the ideal time to define the vehicles further as much as take into account the mechanics of how base power is delivered.

typhaon · 2013-07-21, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Whether it is a module, what can equip the module, or whether it is a standalone vehicle is something we'd like your feedback on.

Can you offer up some good uses of an ANT beyond a space truck? We want all the vehicles to have a well defined role and to be fun. Being a space trucker doesn't seem like it is worth the trouble or worth investing in...what other cool uses do you think the ANT and its power mechanic might bring to make it an interesting and fun vehicle to invest in?

Super-charging station for vehicles? Vehicles could get +5% bonuses to armor/weapons for a short duration/number of shots.

Perhaps it can periodically give off "bursts" that disable enemy radar within a certain range for an amount of time.

Radars/wall hacks have gotten a little silly and this seems like a far more interesting gameplay way of dealing with it - rather than having everyone get a nowallhack implant.

NewSith · 2013-07-21, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Whether it is a module, what can equip the module, or whether it is a standalone vehicle is something we'd like your feedback on.

Can you offer up some good uses of an ANT beyond a space truck? We want all the vehicles to have a well defined role and to be fun. Being a space trucker doesn't seem like it is worth the trouble or worth investing in...what other cool uses do you think the ANT and its power mechanic might bring to make it an interesting and fun vehicle to invest in?

Waste some development time and make it a trailer. "CTF" you said yourself, and trailer is a good flag for vehicles. Make it so the trailer can be attached to MBTs, Lightnings and Sunderers and there you have it. If IFVs are implemented later, they could be allowed pick up the trailer depending on their size and power.

Additional notes:

An interesting mechanic would be if you allow hostiles to "steal" the trailer.
It should have guns and/or passanger slots.

blazealm · 2013-07-21, 08:17 AM

The map is a great start but only way that can truly work, we need sanctuaries back, and then we need more conts then just Hossin and the battle islands. The new road map is definitely a good start.

Sledgecrushr · 2013-07-21, 08:42 AM

They dont have to build an ant to make this work. A new module for the sunderer would be perfect just make it look like a fuel hauling truck. The new module would add a large tank to the back of the sunderer. Would be limited to driver only. You would be able to use all the other defensive certs that you have. This seems like a quick dirty fix that would really hit the spot.

Jonny · 2013-07-21, 09:00 AM

(whoops just posted this in the wrong thread - moved to here)

Hi Malorn,

So i'm going to write it down in a way I understand it working.

Say a player has a maximum 200 nanite resource pool to use. You said it takes 10 mins to go from 0 to full in ideal conditions (100% base power level) so the top income rate is 20 nanites/min.

"Warpgates provide a small amount of power inflow to connected facilities. This is enough to offset any drain for small groups"

This could mean 12 players at base with 100% Power all take 20 nanites/min from that base? (240 nanites/min in total) without it draining power.

Now say another squad arrives all needing resources. That's a total 480 nanites/min drain on the base, meaning the power level starts falling at 240/min. After 1 min, the base (for example, if it can hold 10,000 nanites) is now at 9760 nanites.

All players after that 1 min are now recieving 97.6% of that top level resource gain of 20 nanites/min. Meaning they are getting 19.52 nanites/min. This drain is ongoing every min and so the resources each player receives drops like this every minute:

Power level 100% - Nanite/min - 20
Power level 97.6% - Nanite/min - 19.52
Power level 95.2% - Nanite/min - 19.04
Power level 92.8% - Nanite/min - 18.56
etc...

Or for a small base holding 1000 nanites for example: (per min)

Power level 100% - Nanite/min - 20
Power level 76% - Nanite/min - 15.2
Power level 52% - Nanite/min - 10.4
Power level 28% - Nanite/min - 5.6
Power level 4% - Nanite/min - 0.8
Power level 0% - Nanite/min - 0

So with 2 squads (24 players needing resources) the small base drains in 5 mins. The large base having 10x the storage drains in 50 mins.

That disconnect currently between power level and personal nanites might be confusing, as I believe people need to see how the two directly affect one another.

Clear boundaries need to be made about where you stop gaining resources. A bases power level and resource distribution per min need to be shown clearly.

TL;DR - We need numbers, clear boundaries and players knowing what nanite gain they're getting per min!

Obstruction · 2013-07-21, 09:01 AM

The fact that you know you have these visually "that is an AMS/ANT" high value targets should make you more aware of the ESF suicide bomber threat (which with the resource revamp I think will diminish considering resources will play a bigger roll), but equally it should be a "punishing" affect on the convoy for not dealing or bringing the right tools to the party to deal with threat x.

i dunno man, if i can see the resource train from the air i'm going to troll it all day long and it will just lead to more liberator nerfs that don't need to happen. i made my suggestion based on how hard i will forcefully insert my you-know-what into the please-omg-no of any painfully obvious resource unit.

i don't know what the limitations are in regard to my other suggestion but it really doesn't have to be much more complex than an engineer entity placing a turret entity.

again i really don't know how their systems work exactly but what i was trying to get across would be something like:

1. sunderer enters AMS loading facility region
2. sunderer seats 6-12 loaded with placeholder "infantry" named AMS
3. sunderer transports placeholders to a location
4. sunderer activates deploy ability
5. system checks deploy zone limitation, checks for placeholder infantry
6. placeholders deploy and are removed from the map
7. spawn tube is placed and constructed behind the sunderer and goes live.
8. sunderer is free to load/unload real troops and possibly to return to load more placeholders if possible.

i guess the only thing that's a real stretch is ownership, which may not even really be necessary. maybe no one should own the spawn tubes, like no one owns a base turret. the exp per spawn mechanic could go away then, and just give a flat reward for dropping a spawn tube.

anyway i don't expect my suggestion to be 100% perfect because i don't really know the limitations. but they can use any part of it they like.

the reason i thought of using infantry space to load these things is basically what i already said; 1. that it will be harder for (asshats like me in a) Liberator to just swoop in and obliterate, and 2. not dependent on loadouts and the problem you mentioned.

if pubs need to know there's an ANT or AMS loaded in a particular vehicle i am pretty sure it could get any number of hud and minimap indicators.

besides if there's really going to be the kind of metagame most people seem to want, making those things public knowledge may not be the best idea anyway. i mean i will probably be spying on enemy resource movements sometimes, if it starts to really matter. so naturally i'm not the only one thinking that way.

Calista · 2013-07-21, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

They dont have to build an ant to make this work. A new module for the sunderer would be perfect just make it look like a fuel hauling truck. The new module would add a large tank to the back of the sunderer. Would be limited to driver only. You would be able to use all the other defensive certs that you have. This seems like a quick dirty fix that would really hit the spot.

So I guess air dropping an ANT would be out of the question? Or maybe we just put wings on the Sundy ANT and let it fly be flown in solo? And if there is water on Hossin how about we attach an outboard motor on the Sundy? I fully understand and appreciate economy of scale but seriously we need more variety of vehicles not just variety amongst the vehicles we have.

WSNeo · 2013-07-21, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Whether it is a module, what can equip the module, or whether it is a standalone vehicle is something we'd like your feedback on.

Can you offer up some good uses of an ANT beyond a space truck? We want all the vehicles to have a well defined role and to be fun. Being a space trucker doesn't seem like it is worth the trouble or worth investing in...what other cool uses do you think the ANT and its power mechanic might bring to make it an interesting and fun vehicle to invest in?

How about the ability to discharge the energy in the field to create the equivalent of the Aegis Shield Generator from PS1.

Metal · 2013-07-21, 09:38 AM

The idea is insane awesome!!

Feedback from reading:

- Make more harsh penalty risk/reward as in Ps1.
- Make vehicles actual vehicles, that cannot be blown up in 1 hit.

- Add 8 or 12 hours timer to change between factions on same server.
- Add greater penalty's which can be auto executed on team killing.

Community sandbox ideas (several seriously good in this topic) !!

Originally Posted by Rahabib

Well it looks like this is the road were taking. I think it should be on sunderers only, and the module replaces the ams slot. You can either deploy troops or deploy resources. however I think you need to keep the weapons on the sunderer. you still need at least one other person to help make the sunderer defensive anyhow.

Hm.... adding to this idea. How about "module" which replaces the AMS (something like a tower, etc...) and ammo storage. Ammo storage module could be used as "boxes which transport everything".

As downside of such heavy load, there could be 2-4 less player space in sunderer (risk/reward).