Spawns DESPERATELY need a redesign... - Page 6

Qwan · 2013-06-10, 02:00 PM

Well guys we have solutions, lets see what the future brings. But with the current system I have to admit somthing............. I have been cert horing again, when we push the enemy into there spawn room, I go to a corner, and leave my computer, I go cook, play with my kids, work on my new computer, and hell ive even had a quicky a couple of times while that damn timer counts down. By the time I get back (if I havent timed out), I just get a scythe and go to the next base. Its sad, but being a cert hore has destroyed my motivation to play the game, but I keep logging in daily, following the zerg, and just collecting my certs

Taramafor · 2013-06-10, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Qwan

Well guys we have solutions, lets see what the future brings. But with the current system I have to admit somthing............. I have been cert horing again, when we push the enemy into there spawn room, I go to a corner, and leave my computer, I go cook, play with my kids, work on my new computer, and hell ive even had a quicky a couple of times while that damn timer counts down. By the time I get back (if I havent timed out), I just get a scythe and go to the next base. Its sad, but being a cert hore has destroyed my motivation to play the game, but I keep logging in daily, following the zerg, and just collecting my certs

DEVS, READ THIS AND LEARN!

Along with reading every other post and learning from that.

At the very lest, fix spawns so they can't be XP farmed for doing NOTHING AT ALL! Sheese. Even a heavy XP bonus per kill would fix it, even if it tempts more zergs. But at least the zerg kill mindlessly compared to not at all.

Shogun · 2013-06-11, 07:22 AM

as long as there are fucking invincibility shields in the game, people will camp there for free certs.
period.

but those shields have to stay or the spawnrooms will be under heavy vehicle spam fire.

hence our desire for a complete redesign of spans and bases.
the small containers are unsuitable as spawnrooms, and the fix (shields) didn´t work.
the next fix (domeshields) will not work as well. sooner or later the devs will have to admit, that spawncontainers in the open were the worst idea ever, but they don´t want to, yet.

they want to fix it with workarounds that can never turn out as good as the original spawnsystem of ps1. maybe because a complete redesign looks like a lot of work and the original time working on designing the dixi spawns and paintball setpiece bases would have been a waste.

but fact is, this time was totally wasted, and all the time the devs spend now on half assed workarounds will be added to this pile of wasted time. and the longer it takes, the more players will leave in boredom.

Qwan · 2013-06-11, 08:03 AM

Yea were loosing players weekly, I mean according to our numbers we have 150+ members, but honestly, we got maybe 20+ gamers on each day. The part that catches my attention the most is that a lot of the vets that came over from PS1 havent logged-in in about 2 weeks to a month

I really hope that they get on the ball, maybe Im over reacting or just speculating, but PS2 seems to be taking on water and its starting to sink.

Im starting to have those flashes of me riding my sundy down a road in a empty server all by myself.

mrmrmrj · 2013-06-11, 02:54 PM

Once armor has surrounded the spawn room, it is your own damn fault for respawning there. The base is lost at that point. Why are you respawning? Let the tanks sit there bored with nothing to shoot at as the timer winds down. Go on to the next base and set up defenses.

Anyone who complains about spawn room camping only has themselves to blame.

Shogun · 2013-06-11, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by mrmrmrj

Once armor has surrounded the spawn room, it is your own damn fault for respawning there. The base is lost at that point. Why are you respawning? Let the tanks sit there bored with nothing to shoot at as the timer winds down. Go on to the next base and set up defenses.

Anyone who complains about spawn room camping only has themselves to blame.

what an ignorant view...

so you don´t think it´s a bad mechanic, being forced to sit and wait in boredom until a timer runs out?

Figment · 2013-06-11, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by mrmrmrj

Once armor has surrounded the spawn room, it is your own damn fault for respawning there. The base is lost at that point. Why are you respawning? Let the tanks sit there bored with nothing to shoot at as the timer winds down. Go on to the next base and set up defenses.

Anyone who complains about spawn room camping only has themselves to blame.

Why are you so disrespectful and insulting just because you don't comprehend people do not like your solution as an acceptable solution?

Everyone knows how to do that. That doesn't mean it's an acceptable solution at all. A lot of easily winnable fights in a fair competitive area are made impossible to win due to camping.

This is a game. It should not deny players that can start in an area from participating. That's bad design per definition. Denying said spawn area by destroying it is fine. Denying it by spam is not.

If someone thinks one hit kill spawn camp spam is good game design, I could make some very unflattering comments about all sorts of inferior qualities of said player.

Crator · 2013-06-11, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by mrmrmrj

Once armor has surrounded the spawn room, it is your own damn fault for respawning there. The base is lost at that point. Why are you respawning? Let the tanks sit there bored with nothing to shoot at as the timer winds down. Go on to the next base and set up defenses.

Anyone who complains about spawn room camping only has themselves to blame.

If it's lost at that point then why the hell did the devs design it so that I can still spawn there? Just to frustrate everyone? Oh wait, no, it's b/c of some people's stupidity they let them do that to make them feel bad about themselves and nerd rage on forums about it.

Tom Peters · 2013-06-12, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by mrmrmrj

Once armor has surrounded the spawn room, it is your own damn fault for respawning there. The base is lost at that point. Why are you respawning? Let the tanks sit there bored with nothing to shoot at as the timer winds down. Go on to the next base and set up defenses.

Anyone who complains about spawn room camping only has themselves to blame.

You act like we're only complaining from one side of this issue.

You think it's okay that those tanks have to sit there bored out of their mind because they have to wait for the cap? NO!

Besides any of that nonsense, as previously stated, vehicles should NOT be able to see spawn rooms, it's just BAD BASE DESIGN!

mrmrmrj · 2013-06-12, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Tom Peters

You act like we're only complaining from one side of this issue.

You think it's okay that those tanks have to sit there bored out of their mind because they have to wait for the cap? NO!

Besides any of that nonsense, as previously stated, vehicles should NOT be able to see spawn rooms, it's just BAD BASE DESIGN!

The tanks don't have to sit there either, but at least by doing so they get rewarded with base capture exp.

For those who died defending and respawn not knowing that the spawn room is surrounded, click Redeploy.

I do not disagree that spawn rooms could be more optimally located in many places. I never disputed that. I just pointed out that if you don't like being surrounded by armor while in a spawn room, you have the easy option to re-locate. I guess my use of the words "it's your own damn fault" distracted from my

obvious point. There is ZERO game incentive to sit in a spawn room surrounded by armor, so why do it?

The single biggest design flaws in the spawn rooms is not the fact that they are in the open. It is the fact that you can go on the roof and get stuck there.

Now, if we had EMP grenades, those stand-offs wouldn't be so one sided.

Whiteagle · 2013-06-12, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by mrmrmrj

The single biggest design flaws in the spawn rooms is not the fact that they are in the open. It is the fact that you can go on the roof and get stuck there.

Uh, WHAT?!?!

Dude, if you don't know how to get down from a roof safely in this game, you probably should just stick to Light Assault...

Shogun · 2013-06-12, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by mrmrmrj

The tanks don't have to sit there either, but at least by doing so they get rewarded with base capture exp.

yeah, the bored campers get the "capture"xp and the real fighters who captured the base and went on to the next get nothing.

now that´s a great, fair and fun system!

the camping is unfun for all players near the spawn shields. no matter which side of the shields your on.
and most times i play, i end up rushing from one camp situation to the next. when i arrive the fight is over almost every time. (if there ever was any real battle)
that´s why i don´t play much lately. it´s hard to find a good battle, and when you finally found one, it´s over in 5 minutes. that´s not planetside, that is even more casual than arena shooters.

but are the devs still lurking here?
we keep on spitting out ideas how to fix the game and finally make it fun for everybody, but lately we don´t get any feedback from the devs anymore. they don´t even let us know if they are watching and aware of the problems we discuss.
is this just because they are too busy with all the gatherings coming up?
during beta the dev communication was far better.

Rivenshield · 2013-06-12, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Shogun

is this just because they are too busy with all the gatherings coming up?
during beta the dev communication was far better.

Given the staggering development that is the lattice -- which we were repeatedly told for months that it would never come back, was not on the table, etc. -- I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. They *are* listening.

Jonny · 2013-06-13, 10:06 AM

First you say:

Originally Posted by mrmrmrj

The tanks don't have to sit there either, but at least by doing so they get rewarded with base capture exp.

...and then you go against your own point by saying:

Originally Posted by mrmrmrj

There is ZERO game incentive to sit in a spawn room surrounded by armor, so why do it?

So yes there is incentive. Most bases are quite open to vehicles, with killing newly spawned soldiers xp is a good place for them to sit while waiting for base cap xp. Both are incentives, but spawn camping is the problem here and its getting VERY BORING SOE.

Originally Posted by mrmrmrj

For those who died defending and respawn not knowing that the spawn room is surrounded, click Redeploy.

Thats fair enough and people should to that if overwhelmed, but they usually don't. Why? because for some reason unknown to me you can shoot out the spawn room shields, which for some other unknown design decision from hell, are re-enterable and often in one random spot which can be seen by vehicles and the rest of the base.

The point is they shouldn't have to redeploy - if the base is lost they shouldn't be spawning there in the first place.

Originally Posted by mrmrmrj

The single biggest design flaws in the spawn rooms is not the fact that they are in the open. It is the fact that you can go on the roof and get stuck there.

Totally off the mark there too. One of the biggest design flaws is exactly that...the roof doesn't matter its part of the same bad idea that defenders should sit at one point and keep shooting the attackers. Where the hell is the fun or gameplay there?

Whats needed is some kind of fight for the base that is a struggle for both sides, doesn't involve vehicles and progresses or regresses towards a final objective.

Base spawns need to have no option to shoot attackers from them, and should be drop down non re-enterable rooms. They also need tubes to bring defenders to outer parts of the base to defend the perimeter or escape to mount a counter attack.

I'm trying to think about the base gameplay PS2 is desperately lacking and come up with a proposed solution/s which I'll hopefully post soon.

I love this game but i'm getting so so so bored of arriving at base, spawn camping, capture, repeat.

Whiteagle · 2013-06-13, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Jonny

Base spawns need to have no option to shoot attackers from them, and should be drop down non re-enterable rooms.

Well no, it's not a problem with being able to shoot out of and re-enter the Spawns, the Original Planetside had that as well...

...It's where the Spawns are placed that's the problem!
In PS1, you were always underground, with hard right angled exits that would prevent clear line of sight to and from the tubes.
Even if an attacker was camping you, they'd have to do so from one end of an Infantry tunnel (or the top of a stairway in the case of towers) with a constant stream of small arms fire.

Even if we replaced the Original's motion detecting sliding doors with Factional IFF Shields, this design of right angled exits underground still works as it only grants positional advantage to Infantry firing at one end or the other.