Gameplay: Dedicated driver certification for MBT

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Azren

I'm pretty sure it's not in yet. They can still implement it.
Unless SoE wants to throw dirt in the PS1 players' face, they will implement it.

As far as I've heard, SOE said definitively it wasn't in.

Source?

G-14 Classified

[Azren]

Originally Posted by Baneblade

As far as I've heard, SOE said definitively it wasn't in.



G-14 Classified

If you can not name the source, it holds no weight.

In a recent interview M. H. said that they were considering it. That's the same as it not being in right now.

Still, showing the devs that there are people who care for this will bring this feature to the game sooner or later.

[Baneblade]

War Machine Intelligence is the source. I won't get any more specific than that. Either way, this is something I wanted as well.

[Ratstomper]

Originally Posted by Gugabalog

Its 3 am so I didnt read the full thread but did read several pages.

I feel the 3 seater should completely supplant the 2 seater, period. Didn't play PS1 here so this isn't vet bias.

Aside from the obvious improvement in accuracy of the main gun, it would punish seat switchers by forcing them to give up their movement to fire. Tanks are not one man machines. Tanks take whole crews to operate. A gunner, a commander, a driver, a secondary gunner, a loader. A 3 man tank is far from demandign too much. It is still a simplification.

I'm too tired to completely flesh out my arguement but I feel this way solely to punish zergers and to not allow them to be effective in a tank. Planetside is coop not lol720codwinbitchezzz!111!

Any and all solo capability should be disadvantaged. Period.

It shouldn't so much handicap the soloer as much as make the multi-manned tank more effective.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

It shouldn't so much handicap the soloer as much as make the multi-manned tank more effective.

Which you do by at the very least increasing the hit points of the multi-crewed tank. I've heard players describing the MBTs as slow, expensive Lightnings, which is to say, bad.

They're balanced around being crewed by a single individual most of the time which gives them awful durability.

[Lumberchuk]

Originally Posted by Rivenshield

The TR should get it gratis, out of the box. The other two empires should not even be able to cert it.


If this makes anyone butthurt, and the fact that we get half the number of tanks for the same number of players isn't 'balancing' enough.... well.... in that case I want a howitzer cert for the Prowler so I can make it more like the Vanguard, and both TR and NC should have pontoon certs so our tanks can float. Then we can all be balanced and equal and stuff.

This suggestion to me is a little extreme. Faction differences is one thing but leaving out gameplay options just because you randomly picked one faction and not the other is not okay IMO. Now if the previous suggestion of buffing tanks with more players in them were to be implemented, I could see faction specific buffs being used (TR gets more speed, NC more armour or firepower, VS gets more turn rate/less damage falloff) but as I said before it is far less likely to be implemented and I would be satisfied with just the cert itself.

Originally Posted by Azren

Unless SoE wants to throw dirt in the PS1 players' face, they will implement it.

I think your going a little extreme here. SOE will implement it if they have time to, and if it works gameplay wise. It has nothing to do with PS1 players people need to stop saying that. I do agree though that PS1 tank battles did feel awesome with the driver and gunner as 2 separate people but if it doesn't fit I don't want them to force it in just for the sake of nostalgia

Originally Posted by Gugabalog

Its 3 am so I didnt read the full thread but did read several pages.

I feel the 3 seater should completely supplant the 2 seater, period. Didn't play PS1 here so this isn't vet bias.

Aside from the obvious improvement in accuracy of the main gun, it would punish seat switchers by forcing them to give up their movement to fire. Tanks are not one man machines. Tanks take whole crews to operate. A gunner, a commander, a driver, a secondary gunner, a loader. A 3 man tank is far from demandign too much. It is still a simplification.

I'm too tired to completely flesh out my arguement but I feel this way solely to punish zergers and to not allow them to be effective in a tank. Planetside is coop not lol720codwinbitchezzz!111!

I agree this is not "lol720codwinbitchezzz!111!" and I doubt it ever will be. However it is also not Arma II or even Red Ocastra 2. 3 person tanks would be a little too far IMO, unless they make a separate heavier tank that requires 3 people to operate. Not only would it be much harder to implement but it would be impossible to operate alone, which would mean that if you were new to the game and did not have any friends playing yet, you would be SOL if you wanted to drive tanks. I know you think that's how it should be, and yes, your probably right, but I know SOE disagrees. Everything they have done and said in regards to certs, vehicles, etc. says that a day 1 player should not be limited from any gameplay experiences. (This is why you don't have to cert to drive tanks at all any more)



Here is a summary of the thread so far if you can't read it all (at least from what I have read)

The cert that is being suggested from my understanding is very simple (magrider a tiny bit more complicated). The cert will allow you to give control of the main gun and turret over to the secondary gunner who would normally operate the AA/AI gun on the top of the tank. You would not have to use it, but those that wanted it could use it. Whether or not it was more or less effective then 2 players in individual tanks would depend on the players driving them and their playstyles. I personally feel that a trained driver gunner tank team could go head to head against 2 equally trained single player tanks, but some others disagree (thus the buff the 2 person tank argument)


There are multiple solutions for the magrider too. As suggested in the OP a simple redesign could move the gun and make the turret rotate.

Or

There is always the option of just switching the guns between the driver and secondary gunner. This would mean the driver would have the AI gun on the front while the gunner could have the AV/AA gun on the top. If people really get picky about balance with this change simply give the other two faction tanks a coaxial AI gun that is fixed facing forward like the magriders gun.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Here's your three person solution; Give tanks 3 positions:

Driver
Tank commander
Secondary gunner

Driver only drives, but position is only accessible with 2 or more players in the tank. Tank commander drives and guns the main gun and is the default position when you get in the tank. If someone gets in the driver position the tank commander can relinquish driver controls to him, otherwise he's pretty much just along for the ride. Tank commander can take back driving controls at any time. Secondary gunner is straightforward.

This gives the owner of the tank (who put down his hard-earned resources to buy it) the fun position (main gunning) as well as control of the vehicle when he chooses or at his choice can leave the driving up to a dedicated driver. It also doesn't play favorites as far as certain empires requiring more players to fully man a vehicle, there is parity for each.

As for the armor, perhaps something similar to Tribes: Ascend where you can get a perk (cert) that gives you 50% more armor with a 2nd player, or 100% more with a 3rd.

[Gugabalog]

^ The above post misses the point.

This is a all or nothing matter.

I am in support of 3 person tanks as a non-PS1 vet.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Originally Posted by Gugabalog

^ The above post misses the point.

This is a all or nothing matter.

I am in support of 3 person tanks as a non-PS1 vet.

No, I totally get that and agree with it. Unfortunately since I believe the dev team will refuse to give us 3 person tanks, all we get is nothing. Getting nothing totally blows, so the above or some iteration of it is what gets trumpeted across these boards and most other Planetside boards across the internet.

[Lumberchuk]

Originally Posted by Gugabalog

^ The above post misses the point.

This is a all or nothing matter.

I am in support of 3 person tanks as a non-PS1 vet.

Your simply not going to get 3 person tanks where the 3rd person is require for the tank to work. The best you could hope for is a 3 person tank where 2 people operate the different guns and 1 drives, as an option. Even that though is a stretch considering nothing is in the game right now.

I don't want some supper realistic tank simulator, and this game will not be that because it doe not appeal to the masses. What I do want is simply the option to give control of the main gun to the other person in my tank because I think it is a much better way to divide the responsibilities of the 2 man tank team.

People who are asking for higher more players required to operate tanks are going to be disappointed. Even people who are asking for buffed tanks with more players are going to be disappointed. These changes are just too drastic and are not in the direction gameplay wise SOE wants to go, since they have already said the cert is not in because of the magrider. What I suggest is a simple option to give control of the main gun to the secondary gunner. That's it! If you don't like it don't use the cert. If you are alone, don't give away control! If this simple idea can get into the game, THEN we can worry about the balance aspect of it. That is what beta is for! If the feature doesn't exist though, then there is nothing to balance, and IMO tank combat will suffer heavily.

Regardless I still will drive tanks. Tank vs tank in Battlefield 3 is still fun as hell (getting the right arc, smoking when you get guided shelled, rotating your tank to show your reactive armour, keeping an eye out for pesky C4ers) so this is not a game breaker for me. But I do think it could add a lot to the game.

[Baneblade]

PS2 tankers are definitely going to have to up their game over PS1 tankers. I'm looking forward to it. I can't have this name and be known as a Reaver pilot now can I.

[Azren]

Originally Posted by Lumberchuk

since they have already said the cert is not in because of the magrider.

Source?

Anyway, the magrider is not an issue, look at first post. It would take some work, but nothing that can't be done in a week.

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Azren

Source?

SOE

Anyway, the magrider is not an issue, look at first post. It would take some work, but nothing that can't be done in a week.

The Mag is the issue. 'Fixing' the Mag means a complete functional redesign from the ground up. Won't happen by release unless the Mag is as common as DC MAXes in PS1.

[DarthGoogle]

If you are really bothered that the Mag could get imbalanced with rotating turret (though it was not in PS1) - you can give its main gun a limited arc. 270 degrees, for example - so Magrider could not shoot back if something got on his 6 and pursuing.

[Gugabalog]

Originally Posted by Lumberchuk

Your simply not going to get 3 person tanks where the 3rd person is require for the tank to work. The best you could hope for is a 3 person tank where 2 people operate the different guns and 1 drives, as an option. Even that though is a stretch considering nothing is in the game right now.

I don't want some supper realistic tank simulator, and this game will not be that because it doe not appeal to the masses. What I do want is simply the option to give control of the main gun to the other person in my tank because I think it is a much better way to divide the responsibilities of the 2 man tank team.

People who are asking for higher more players required to operate tanks are going to be disappointed. Even people who are asking for buffed tanks with more players are going to be disappointed. These changes are just too drastic and are not in the direction gameplay wise SOE wants to go, since they have already said the cert is not in because of the magrider. What I suggest is a simple option to give control of the main gun to the secondary gunner. That's it! If you don't like it don't use the cert. If you are alone, don't give away control! If this simple idea can get into the game, THEN we can worry about the balance aspect of it. That is what beta is for! If the feature doesn't exist though, then there is nothing to balance, and IMO tank combat will suffer heavily.

Regardless I still will drive tanks. Tank vs tank in Battlefield 3 is still fun as hell (getting the right arc, smoking when you get guided shelled, rotating your tank to show your reactive armour, keeping an eye out for pesky C4ers) so this is not a game breaker for me. But I do think it could add a lot to the game.

Why i it we cannot go back to the old system?

Also, a 3 person crew is far from realistic. It's the greatest possible oversimplification without rewarding solo tankers.