Warning, very unpopular opinion! Why kill-cam desperately needs to return - Page 6

Angrytortoise · 2013-08-19, 02:28 PM

Kill-Cam is a horrible idea, put plainly players should not be rewarded for having poor situational awareness. The "lets remove an aspect of combat for the benefit of new player adjustment" is just a bad line of thought; you could easily replace "kill-cam" with something like "autoaim" following that line of reasoning.

Besides you already have visual indicators as to where your being fired upon from via tracer fire/sound, and damage visual indication on your screen (red circle fragment damage indicator when you get hit which is common place in your vanilla shooter and anyone who's ever played a round of CoD should be familiar with). All the tools are there to be utilized; no point replacing them with an unnecessary crutch that removes or at least blatantly hampers legitimate tactical options in the game.

The only way kill cams would have a positive impact would be on a time delayed release where you could analyze your deaths after the fact, and for the lols factor on retarded deaths. somewhere between an hour and a day delayed so it doesn't give the viewer a tactical advantage in the immediate but honestly don't really think it's needed.

Ertwin · 2013-08-19, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Angrytortoise

The only way kill cams would have a positive impact would be on a time delayed release where you could analyze your deaths after the fact, and for the lols factor on retarded deaths. somewhere between an hour and a day delayed so it doesn't give the viewer a tactical advantage in the immediate but honestly don't really think it's needed.

That would actually be really cool. It would cover all the reasons Rolfski has for wanting a kill cam, but with none of the downsides.

Chaff · 2013-08-19, 02:55 PM

.
If you want Killcam feedback. Perhaps it can be provided in an after-the-fact type manner....like two posts prior mentioned.....

....go to VR, sit in a "virtual theatre (with pop corn ?) and watch you previous death(s) since you logged on as your current character. Perhpas require the player to stay in VR another 5 minutes to prevent taking advantage of any killcam info. While in VR "Killcam Theatre", you are unable to access any voice, keyboard, communication....

Would something along this line work for the commuinity ?

...perhpas grant players under BR10 some minor-to-modest XP while watching ? Hell, a BR 100 could watch Killcam footage, but only as a learning tool.
.

RSphil · 2013-08-19, 03:12 PM

thats a no from me for kill cams. in a game where tactics are needed a kill cam will make tactics null and void. imho kill cams have no place in Planetside 2.

Sunrock · 2013-08-19, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Ertwin

That would actually be really cool. It would cover all the reasons Rolfski has for wanting a kill cam, but with none of the downsides.

It would but it would mean SOE needs to pay for allot of new servers to store that info on too.... So I don't think it's realistic.

Hamma · 2013-08-19, 04:02 PM

Simple response from me: No.

We don't need it, it was in early on and the response was overwhelmingly negative so they removed it before we even played the game. I think that decision was for the best.

Rolfski · 2013-08-19, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by PredatorFour

Are you for real ?????? Saying camping is a problem in an arena shooter i can perfectly understand but in a shooter where there is objectives on a massive scale?? It's insane to say camping is a problem in planetside!

You're right, camping is not a problem in this game until it becomes farming. This is the kind of camping I was referring to.

Originally Posted by Roderick

I have never been a supporter of the kill cam. It always reveals more than it ever should and just takes the "covert" experience out of an FPS game.

As said above, there's a limit you can make to what a kill-cam can reveal and what for you as a veteran feels "covert" can just be a horrible frustrating experience for a newer player.

Originally Posted by Angrytortoise

Kill-Cam is a horrible idea, put plainly players should not be rewarded for having poor situational awareness. The "lets remove an aspect of combat for the benefit of new player adjustment" is just a bad line of thought; you could easily replace "kill-cam" with something like "autoaim" following that line of reasoning.

Besides you already have visual indicators as to where your being fired upon from via tracer fire/sound, and damage visual indication on your screen (red circle fragment damage indicator when you get hit which is common place in your vanilla shooter and anyone who's ever played a round of CoD should be familiar with). All the tools are there to be utilized; no point replacing them with an unnecessary crutch that removes or at least blatantly hampers legitimate tactical options in the game.

You said it yourself, the game has already many artificial elements that aid you. Kill-cam is just another element in that row, which really makes me think why people hyper-react so much on this one.
What made kill-cam in COD such a traumatizing experience that people are so raging about it? For me personally, it was a great feature in COD that really improved my game play. It never destroyed my tactical play, never felt to me that I couldn't go stealth, never gave me the feeling it revealed my "secrets". If anything, it made me stay more mobile, which is not a bad thing.

The only way kill cams would have a positive impact would be on a time delayed release where you could analyze your deaths after the fact, and for the lols factor on retarded deaths. somewhere between an hour and a day delayed so it doesn't give the viewer a tactical advantage in the immediate but honestly don't really think it's needed.

I have been thinking about this idea as well. Black Ops 2 has a pretty nifty recording and camera feature that you can use to make your own cool, cinematic videos as well as analyzing your game play.

Problem is that the average, casual player probably doesn't bother to dive into a feature like this. He just gives this game a try, gets farmed all the time by hardcore vets that want this game become even more hardcore and quits in frustration.

Wahooo · 2013-08-19, 04:21 PM

WHO THE HELL ARE THE PLAYERS YOU ARE TRYING TO HELP AND WHY DO THEY MATTER?

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Problem is that the average, casual player probably doesn't bother to dive into a feature like this. He just gives this game a try, gets farmed all the time by hardcore vets that want this game become even more hardcore and quits in frustration.

^^^^^
If they can't be arsed to use a feature to help them learn, and obviously dont' have the mental capacity to figure out how to stand back and watch for the massive bright tracers after they, or someone around them died, why do they deserve to be spoon fed such critical information?

Farming ok, camping ok... camping to farm not ok? You are making no sense. As a sniper I rely on the ability to sometimes get to a good spot where I CAN camp... if it is a good spot then I will be farming, but farming with a purpose. You know killing heavies with RL so my tanks are ok, killing snipers so my heavies with RL stay alive and shoot their tanks. Sometimes I go to great lengths to get to these spots and do what I can to try and stay hidden and keep people guessing. I play smart and do what I can to shoot first anyone I think might have the ability to find me... BEFORE they find me. To think my position is compromised the first time I kill someone? No thank you not for me.

For the players that REALLY need this as a feature as much as you want to say they do? I can't see them gaining as much as the players that don't need it to whom this type of things becomes a MAJOR advantage.

Mastachief · 2013-08-19, 04:22 PM

Wow this thread is still going and the op still has his fingers in his ears.

The players don't want or need it.

This was a purely self serving thread by a frustrated person who dies so much that he is angry he cannot figure out why he is dieing. Camp this camp that camp everything. This is planetside 2 the aim of the game is to camp... Territory capture and defence. Stop being butthurt and learn to play.

I can assure you that good players would find the killcam far more useful than newbies as a learn tool.

Step 1: Sacrificial lamb
Step2: x y z and c are medics they are in corners y u and i. Maxes are c g and h.
Step3: Conc nade in corne 1 and 2, LULZ, room clear point secured.

No matter what you do people that lack the skills required for this game will suck at it forever, why shaft everyone for scrubs that wont be staying around anyhow.

You are wrong give it up already you are just pissing people off

Taramafor · 2013-08-19, 04:31 PM

Let's get one thing clear. What you call "farming" is also known as a "kill zone". Solution? Don't be in the kill zone.

Of course if that kill zone is an air tower it does mean you're somewhat stuck but if you get bogged down by sniper fire then guess what, that makes the sniper useful. Add a killcam and snipers will snipe less because of that because their positions will always be known. Finding a good sniping spot and then getting to it can be a chore and the position shouldn't be given away to the enemy. If you're getting sniped, respawn, use cover and look around for high places. Chances are you see the sniper on a cliff and he's aiming at you right now. But it takes you at least 2 lives to do it (perhaps more but you WILL see the enemy snipers if you bother to LOOK).

What you want is to skip all of that and spoon feed people sniper locations. No. Thanks. And I say that as a bad sniper that's been forced to use my eyes to look out for them.

Helwyr · 2013-08-19, 04:56 PM

No!

And if you want my reasons against Kill Cams go look up the threads way back before launch when this terrible idea of Kill Cams was buried 6 feet under, decapitated, and staked through the heart. If that wasn't enough to see this monster never rise again you can see from this thread we're all waiting up top with gasoline just to be sure.

Angrytortoise · 2013-08-19, 05:47 PM

lol it's a good thing I get bored at the office. incoming wall of text haha.

Originally Posted by Rolfski

You said it yourself, the game has already many artificial elements that aid you. Kill-cam is just another element in that row, which really makes me think why people hyper-react so much on this one.
What made kill-cam in COD such a traumatizing experience that people are so raging about it? For me personally, it was a great feature in COD that really improved my game play. It never destroyed my tactical play, never felt to me that I couldn't go stealth, never gave me the feeling it revealed my "secrets". If anything, it made me stay more mobile, which is not a bad thing.

Kill Camera is not just another "artificial element" akin to tracer fire or HUD damage indicators. The only one of the examples that I listed which I'd even really drop in the category of artificial interface is the damage indicators on your HUD but really that's just to compensate for the games inability to provide you the sensory information of where your getting shot. It has a clear purpose of filling the role of identifying an attacker via a physical indicator of getting hit, something you would be able to do in real life which you can't do in a videogame (ie ouch I got shot in the back of the leg so he fired from behind me) the game can't make me feel the ouch so it gives me the display; these are functions essential for simulating sensory information. a kill-cam doesn't add to sensory immersion it takes away from it.

Secondly, I don't really see how this is hyper/over reacting to the concept of kill-cams, a lot of people have given logical arguments why they think it's a bad idea; but I havn't seen too many people getting emotional over it or anything lol. It's not that they were mentally scarred by playing games with killcams, it's simply that they don't believe it belongs in Planetside and while you may have enjoyed the kill cam function and never found that it inhibited your gameplay experience doesn't mean that it doesn't affect others (hell I used to play a ton of CoD and I can think of thousands of times where I got an easy kill on an opponent who had just caught me by surprise because I saw where he was on the killcam); it's a fact people play differently and for different reasons; the kill cam is a feature that has a notable negative impact on some of these players while bringing very little in the way of necessary depth.

Finally you have to look at how it would affect competitive play; I mean to start with you have a feature that punishes a player for winning an engagement which in of itself is derp, and then you have removing tactical positioning and ambush techniques. In a game like Call of Duty where you're restricted to a self-contained 20ish minute match with sporadic spawn locations the gameplay is by necessity much more hectic and altering, your team of 6-9 players is almost never holding a static front, even at the pro level it's pretty much just a giant shitshow half the time so you're constantly relocating because the enemy spawns are constantly adjusting, it actively/intrinsically promotes a close quarters run & gun playstyle.

Planetside is a whole different ball game where you regularly have large static fronts where battles can last hours along a front that may only shift 50 meters from where it began and it has much deeper/long term strategic goals as well as room for varied styles of gameplay. Should a sniper who picks off some nosey infantry getting too close to a key unscouted sunderer position be a waste of time because he could see the sunderer on his screen? Kinda lame in my opinion.

As for you concern about new players.. Well I can understand them being confused about strategic objectives, how to spawn vehicles, and general unfamiliarity with how to interface with the environment/where to go etc..sure..but a kill cam won't solve that. As for the actual combat...pretty damn basic to be honest, there's a red team, a blue team, and a purple team, you have a gun, when you shoot at stuff it gets hurt, if I see a hail of bullets coming from a hill at me I know somebody in a hill is shooting at me and I better get somewhere he cant see me, get sniped by someone you can't see..ok I know that's not a safe place to stand...that's all basic common sense lolol, if that's whats holding back the player base you're referring to it's not the games fault. I've personally introduced a few people to PS2 and while they might take a while to get used to the gunplay/objectives/interface there really wasn't that huge of a curve.

Taramafor · 2013-08-19, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by Angrytortoise

lol it's a good thing I get bored at the office. incoming wall of text haha.

Kill Camera is not just another "artificial element" akin to tracer fire or HUD damage indicators. The only one of the examples that I listed which I'd even really drop in the category of artificial interface is the damage indicators on your HUD but really that's just to compensate for the games inability to provide you the sensory information of where your getting shot. It has a clear purpose of filling the role of identifying an attacker via a physical indicator of getting hit, something you would be able to do in real life which you can't do in a videogame (ie ouch I got shot in the back of the leg so he fired from behind me) the game can't make me feel the ouch so it gives me the display; these are functions essential for simulating sensory information. a kill-cam doesn't add to sensory immersion it takes away from it.

Secondly, I don't really see how this is hyper/over reacting to the concept of kill-cams, a lot of people have given logical arguments why they think it's a bad idea; but I havn't seen too many people getting emotional over it or anything lol. It's not that they were mentally scarred by playing games with killcams, it's simply that they don't believe it belongs in Planetside and while you may have enjoyed the kill cam function and never found that it inhibited your gameplay experience doesn't mean that it doesn't affect others (hell I used to play a ton of CoD and I can think of thousands of times where I got an easy kill on an opponent who had just caught me by surprise because I saw where he was on the killcam); it's a fact people play differently and for different reasons; the kill cam is a feature that has a notable negative impact on some of these players while bringing very little in the way of necessary depth.

Finally you have to look at how it would affect competitive play; I mean to start with you have a feature that punishes a player for winning an engagement which in of itself is derp, and then you have removing tactical positioning and ambush techniques. In a game like Call of Duty where you're restricted to a self-contained 20ish minute match with sporadic spawn locations the gameplay is by necessity much more hectic and altering, your team of 6-9 players is almost never holding a static front, even at the pro level it's pretty much just a giant shitshow half the time so you're constantly relocating because the enemy spawns are constantly adjusting, it actively/intrinsically promotes a close quarters run & gun playstyle.

Planetside is a whole different ball game where you regularly have large static fronts where battles can last hours along a front that may only shift 50 meters from where it began and it has much deeper/long term strategic goals as well as room for varied styles of gameplay. Should a sniper who picks off some nosey infantry getting too close to a key unscouted sunderer position be a waste of time because he could see the sunderer on his screen? Kinda lame in my opinion.

As for you concern about new players.. Well I can understand them being confused about strategic objectives, how to spawn vehicles, and general unfamiliarity with how to interface with the environment/where to go etc..sure..but a kill cam won't solve that. As for the actual combat...pretty damn basic to be honest, there's a red team, a blue team, and a purple team, you have a gun, when you shoot at stuff it gets hurt, if I see a hail of bullets coming from a hill at me I know somebody in a hill is shooting at me and I better get somewhere he cant see me, get sniped by someone you can't see..ok I know that's not a safe place to stand...that's all basic common sense lolol, if that's whats holding back the player base you're referring to it's not the games fault. I've personally introduced a few people to PS2 and while they might take a while to get used to the gunplay/objectives/interface there really wasn't that huge of a curve.

This. +infinity.

We get enough hand holding games and there's enough icons as it is (frankly, I'd like the option to disable some on my end). There's only so much hand holding that can be done before a game becomes less of a game and more of a show where all you end up doing is pushing a button for the next scene to play.

COD is NOT Planetside. Which would be why people here like to shit on it. One's a small squad that makes best use of maneuverability while the other makes use of a combination of maneuverability and digging in. Hence camping which is a tactic like any other. Somewhat cheap in games with smaller maps (COD for example) but with a map this big there's a lot of ground to cover. Try using other ground instead of going to the same spot where you're getting "farmed". Or in the case of a base, approach from another angel or with other people. One sniper can't beat a rush of 10+ troops. Which is why I say communication is key. And so is leadership. Make an effort to rally some people somewhere where there's trouble and they will follow most of the time.

Mustakrakish · 2013-08-19, 07:12 PM

I'm opposed to adding a kill-cam for many reasons.

First, there's the near-total destruction of stealth. I mean, let's think about this for a minute: any kind of ability that reveals enemy locations (e.g. Recon Dart, Proximity Radar) already requires hundreds of certs to be invested before it reaches usefulness. Adding something like kill-cam to the game does absolutely nothing to improve PS2's depth of gameplay or balance, and would instead undermine both of those things.

Second, PS2 isn't just an FPS: it's an MMO, too. Just like any other MMO, it has a learning curve and will require you to invest some time and (horror of horrors!) some thought into the game before you become good at it. Anyone expecting to jump into the game, learn everything there is to know in a day or two, and climb a mountain of pwned n00bcaeks straight to BR 100 will probably not enjoy PS2 enough to keep them interested anyway.

As far as learning the game and improving your skills goes, there are no substitutes for tutorials and the advice of other players. To me, it seems like kill-cam is just a shoddy attempt to sidestep the necessity of player interaction and compress the skill curve of the game.

Originally Posted by Chaff

If you want Killcam feedback. Perhaps it can be provided in an after-the-fact type manner....like two posts prior mentioned.....

....go to VR, sit in a "virtual theatre (with pop corn ?) and watch you previous death(s) since you logged on as your current character.

This, on the other hand, is an idea I could get behind.

Dougnifico · 2013-08-19, 10:28 PM

Ok...

I am indifferent to kill cams. There is only one constant for me. There needs to be a way to shut them off (such as a perk or implant). This allows snipers, cloakers, and all other affected parties to circumnavigate the extreme disadvantage this brings them. Other than that, kill cams really make no significant difference.