Light Assault Ammo Drop - Page 6

EVILPIG · 2012-04-09, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Marinealver

TOTTALY AGAINST IT At least for the light assault class. I mean it is bad enough it can jump to out of reach places. Now you give it the ability to camp?!?
Light assault is made for mobility. Therfore a light assault player need to be "mobile" to be sucessfull. Low/Out of ammo? the light assault guy is the fastest class to fall back, grab some more, and return to the front while the rest of the footslogers are simply trapped.

If anyone should get the ammo drop it should be either the Heavy Assault or the Engineer with a Ammo dispensor.

I had a similar concern, so I suggested making it a Command Ability, usable by a squad leader. They would not toss it out, but call it in. However, this creates another issue in that even a MAX could call for it's own ammo.

Tamas · 2012-04-09, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Marinealver

TOTTALY AGAINST IT At least for the light assault class. I mean it is bad enough it can jump to out of reach places. Now you give it the ability to camp?!?
Light assault is made for mobility. Therfore a light assault player need to be "mobile" to be sucessfull. Low/Out of ammo? the light assault guy is the fastest class to fall back, grab some more, and return to the front while the rest of the footslogers are simply trapped.

If anyone should get the ammo drop it should be either the Heavy Assault or the Engineer with a Ammo dispensor.

Have to agree.

In my mind - Heavy assault should carry ammo boxes. Or better - engineers should create some small station to rearm.

Bags · 2012-04-09, 01:11 PM

Higby said they were thinking of moving it to HA or Engineer when I tweeted him about it

kaffis · 2012-04-09, 01:51 PM

I like it on LA. Why?

As the person who resurrected this thread at the end of page 4 pointed out, the highly mobile LA class is the one least troubled by returning for supplies just by turning around and heading to the spawn point and coming back. It's quick, it's got jets, it won't take it long.

But that's working from the assumption that the ammo feature is meant to benefit the LA.

It's not. It's a teamplay feature. The LA is the guy who *doesn't* need to have infinite ammo, because it's easy for him to get more quickly and return to the fight. But having the ammo gives him an incentive to stick around the REST of the team, because they sure as hell do need ammo, and can't spare the time it would take to leave their posts and allow the enemy to take their position.

Give it to engineer or HA, and you lose that. Because they'll be with the whole team anyways, and are, honestly, the ones consuming the ammo most effectively to begin with. In their hands, it IS a solo tool. In LA's hands, it's a support tool for his team, because even with infinite ammo, he's not armed and armored to embody a one-man assault.

captainkapautz · 2012-04-09, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by kaffis

I like it on LA. Why?

As the person who resurrected this thread at the end of page 4 pointed out, the highly mobile LA class is the one least troubled by returning for supplies just by turning around and heading to the spawn point and coming back. It's quick, it's got jets, it won't take it long.

But that's working from the assumption that the ammo feature is meant to benefit the LA.

It's not. It's a teamplay feature. The LA is the guy who *doesn't* need to have infinite ammo, because it's easy for him to get more quickly and return to the fight. But having the ammo gives him an incentive to stick around the REST of the team, because they sure as hell do need ammo, and can't spare the time it would take to leave their posts and allow the enemy to take their position.

Give it to engineer or HA, and you lose that. Because they'll be with the whole team anyways, and are, honestly, the ones consuming the ammo most effectively to begin with. In their hands, it IS a solo tool. In LA's hands, it's a support tool for his team, because even with infinite ammo, he's not armed and armored to embody a one-man assault.

I think it's counter-productive to give one of the 2 scout-classes, the other being Infiltrator, an incentive to stick WITH the team.

raidyr · 2012-04-09, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

Balance is something different from complete mechanic overhauls.

Be judgmental, but fair.

I'm being exactly that?

It's more fair to say that when more people get to play it they will have more feedback than "Absolutely not changing ever".

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

'

Developers always say that. You will not see core game changes in beta. It won't happen.

Disagree, I've seen it happen several times in several betas.

The pessimism on these boards

Blackwolf · 2012-04-09, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by Synapses

What? Your kidding me right... you know the number one complaint I have about Planetside 1? I died so easily and so quickly and it had a rock paper scissor feel to it. To say that if you died in Planetside 1 you really messed up... Yeah right Whale. Thats probably the single most untrue statement ive read about Plantside. You died so quickly and easily in almost anything but tanks and BFR's. I come around the corner to a guy using third person view with his MCG, dead, no chance. I was live streaming earlier today and was getting mad because I was dying 10 seconds after I spawned weather it be random bad luck or some guy with his MCG, and it only took a few seconds like I said. So your point is here on out invalid in every sense.

Ammo boxes are a good addition. It makes it so I dont have to run all the way back to the AMS/Terminal to get my ammo back. Now I can just back out of combat a ways and rearm. How is that ANY different then the HP/Armor system in PS1 right now. Its probably something you have to cert in to on top of that.

On the same note, I've stayed alive with 10 health and no armor left longer then in full armor and health before. This while sniping and counter sniping. No joke 8 minutes strait on a wall with zero armor (doesn't matter what kind, 1 shot kills you at full health without armor from a sniper rifle), dodging sniping and counter sniping enemies without really believing that this actually happened.

Originally Posted by Whalenator

It seems like an SMG can kill a medium assault in two seconds if well-aimed.
It took maybe three direct hits (~2.5 seconds) with the most powerful close combat weapon in the game (Jackhammer) OR MORE to kill someone in reinforced armor.

.5 to 1 second actually. Jackhammer did enough damage to destroy armor and leave a Rexo with something like 75 health and 20-50 armor left (from 100/200). Second shot killed. Refire rate of .5 seconds means the first shot is free, the 1 second was for those who popped up Pshield or hit their medkit. Either way death followed quickly.

I may have that wrong, it might be 1 second flat with or without medkits (shot>.5 refire>shot>.5 refire>shot). I believe I tested it and realized wasting the time to hit a medkit was just as pointless against a JH as it was while sniping. Took a long time to break the habit of wasting a kit after getting hit by either. Meanwhile it was very useful against an MCG or Lasher or virtually any other weapon, except scattermax and Magscatter thingie.

Not to mention the other horrible ways of fast death. Flail rounds, OSes, snipers hitting you and inconvenient times, being run over by a tank, Plasma melting you to the ground...

Naw, your wrong. While any one weapon takes it's time to kill you, there were almost always more then one aiming at you.

I use to know a site the listed all the TTKs against every infantry. Even TTKs against vehicles (with and without shield benefit).

Ruwyn · 2012-04-09, 10:34 PM

Lol at the person complaining about dying too fast in PS1 and then complaining about running out of ammo and running back to an AMS.

1. If you are dying too fast, you should not be out of ammo.
2. If you are running out of ammo, you are not dying fast.

Anyways... no to ammo drops. yes to bag drops.

That one noob · 2012-04-10, 05:01 AM

I recently played Payday: The Heist, and I think the way they implement ammo refills is actually pretty balanced. The way they made it is that
1.) There is a limited amount of ammo the players can scrounge out of the bag.(It's pooled too)
2.) The players actually have to interact with ammo bag in order to refill ammo and
3.) The players have to take time refilling their ammo before returning to the fight.

What do you guys think of this if you can take this from my jumbled words?

Marinealver · 2012-04-10, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

I had a similar concern, so I suggested making it a Command Ability, usable by a squad leader. They would not toss it out, but call it in. However, this creates another issue in that even a MAX could call for it's own ammo.

I would love to see more squad leader and command functions. The platoon feature needs to be added in as with 100 of players you definatly going to need some form of empire hiarchy.

kaffis · 2012-04-10, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Marinealver

I would love to see more squad leader and command functions. The platoon feature needs to be added in as with 100 of players you definatly going to need some form of empire hiarchy.

Missions replace the need for platoons. You don't issue commands to 100 players, you and your fellow commanders cooperate to issue half a dozen missions, which a squad or two each enlist to accomplish.

Figment · 2012-04-10, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by raidyr

I'm being exactly that?

Acting obtrusive (by telling people to wait for beta).

It's more fair to say that when more people get to play it they will have more feedback than "Absolutely not changing ever".

It's not more fair, it'll be too late to be fair. It'll be great if we could have 50 different mechanics tested to pick the right one, but we can't.

Figment · 2012-04-10, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by That one noob

I recently played Payday: The Heist, and I think the way they implement ammo refills is actually pretty balanced. The way they made it is that
1.) There is a limited amount of ammo the players can scrounge out of the bag.(It's pooled too)
2.) The players actually have to interact with ammo bag in order to refill ammo and
3.) The players have to take time refilling their ammo before returning to the fight.

What do you guys think of this if you can take this from my jumbled words?

Still say if you drop ammo, you should lose ammo yourself.

Pollo Jack · 2012-04-10, 11:00 AM

If the ammo drop is given to the HA, Engi, or Medic then most indoor combat will mimic PS where agile was usable but REXO was equipped when available. Jump jets are useless when there is a ceiling unless the netcode is ass and you have VS MAX units going through the ceiling.

I personally prefer having to manage inventory, it gave me a cozy feeling knowing I planned and spaced my inventory perfectly.

If they stick with no inventory a two sided solution may work. Giving HA ammo and giving Engi the ability to build a dispenser. An additional point to defend like in TF2.

O, and here is something to speculate. If not limited properly a squad could do a gen hold almost indefinitely with ammo drop boxes.

Ruwyn · 2012-04-10, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by kaffis

Missions replace the need for platoons. You don't issue commands to 100 players, you and your fellow commanders cooperate to issue half a dozen missions, which a squad or two each enlist to accomplish.

Can't wait to see how the mission system is completely ignored by outfits that can just coordinate things properly. People are gonna set up missions for pug squads and when they get there they are gonna find that it was already done by a group that was on the ball and knows how to function in a massive area.