MAX Timers - Page 6

Queensidecastle · 2004-02-15, 11:56 PM

CERTS ARE USLESS WHEN COMPARING MAX SUIT AND INFANTRY

one more time in case you missed it:

CERTS ARE USLESS WHEN COMPARING MAX SUIT AND INFANTRY

Its as retarded as saying that a Tank is 3 certs so, Infantry should be able to own a tank. Even tho the reasons are obvious I will let you in on it since it has escaped you this entire 5 page thread:

A guy may be battle rank 20 and have adv hacking, adv med, CE, and various vehicles or SA, HA, MA, AV, Rexo..etc, but even though he may have all those certs when he is in his MAX suit, he cannot:

bail out of the suit
drive a vehicle
gun for a vehicle
ride in vehicles (except sundy/gal)
repair themselves
repair anyone else
repair any object
heal someone else
rez
hack entry doors
hack consoles
hack lockers
hack vehicles
gain access to MAX suit from locker
gain access to MAX suit from AMS
and last but not least, they get 5 minute timers as well as moving extremely slowly.

Are you starting to get it yet? no? all those negatives are supposed to equal this positive:

Killing Machine

Except they are not killing machines, they are fucking jokes. They are not the Frontline, they are not the Rear. The only thing they actually can do is Anti-aircraft and they only reason they can do this is because they are not within range of the enemy 90% of the time. The fact of the matter is a MAX is as easy to kill as a cloaker.

Boost the armor or tweak the Deci where it takes 4 shots (or 5) to kill a MAX

Angel_of_Death · 2004-02-15, 11:58 PM

They are killing machines though...

until you meet a deci

Seer · 2004-02-16, 12:12 AM

Or until you go outside and get owned three ways from sunday by every yahoo with something bigger than a pistol.

Queensidecastle · 2004-02-16, 12:12 AM

They are killing machines though...

Maybe AA MAXs are but I actually think those are balanced. I can kill more enemies as a HA, SA, Rexo than I can as an AI MAX, and I can do all that and not need to beg someone to repair me, and can drive and gun vehicles

Warborn · 2004-02-16, 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by BadAsh

This thread is about the MAX timer... and how people can't figure out how to survive more than 5 min in a MAX. The Deci got dragged into this as the MAX nemesis.

This thread was originally about how incredibly effective Decimators are against MAXs, but I edited it because I felt I was being presumptuous thinking that perhaps the devs want AI MAXs to be paltry against infantry, which is why I instead shifted it to lessening the restrictions MAXs have. I am glad the thread evolved into this discussion, though, as it coincides with my opinion more.

And yet, 38% of the players in the game have MAX certifications... and I see them all the time on the field of battle. Seems to me they are effective enough for people to use them. What else do you want?

I see AA MAXs all the time, because AA MAXs are good. They're the best way to kill Reavers outside a vehicle. It's not surprising 38% have them, if indeed that number is accurate.

If you make maxes even easier to use and even more available it will turn PlanetSide into MAXside. It already almost is with MAX crash teams swarming all over Markov. 40 MAX units and a single hacker can break a seige. You wanna reduce that number to 30? 20? 10? 1?

That's a pretty worst-case scenario, 40 MAXs and a lone hacker. If that's how you want to look at it, 20 tanks can completely pin down a base. 30 Reavers could tear the hell out of almost any ground force. 50 HA Surgiles with Decimators could own any base out there. And so on and so forth. Realistically, you won't get 40 people in a MAX suit attacking a single base at the same time, so I don't see the value in citing it in your defense.

I'll tell you this much, though, 40 MAXs against 40 Surgiles with Decimators is a done deal. Pack your bags, MAXs, wars over for you.

BadAsh · 2004-02-16, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by Warborn

That's a pretty worst-case scenario, 40 MAXs and a lone hacker. If that's how you want to look at it, 20 tanks can completely pin down a base. 30 Reavers could tear the hell out of almost any ground force. 50 HA Surgiles with Decimators could own any base out there. And so on and so forth. Realistically, you won't get 40 people in a MAX suit attacking a single base at the same time, so I don't see the value in citing it in your defense.

This happens all the time on Markov. I guess, not being from that server, you have never seen one of EVILPIGS MAX crash teams... they all gather in the base tower and charge on queue... battle over.

Veteran · 2004-02-16, 01:33 AM

I guess Decimator will have to be pried out of the cold, dead hands of those who love the easy power it gives.

Best work on that grip.

BadAsh · 2004-02-16, 03:07 AM

Originally Posted by Veteran

I guess Decimator will have to be pried out of the cold, dead hands of those who love the easy power it gives.

Best work on that grip.

Not one of my characters has SA. I've used it in the past, but I prefer AV.

All I want to avoid is the situation where a MAX can be a complete substitute for skill. Just because you have an AI MAX should not mean you are guaranteed wins against infantry.

IMHO there are already too many damn MAX units running around. It's very difficult to have a good, knock down, infantry fight without someone grabbing a MAX and causing the battle to turn into "He who weapon switches the fastest wins"... L A M E...

IMHO the game would be much getter off without any MAX units... but, that's just not going to happen so...

What you guys are suggesting will make this worse... many people don't use max units because they suck at them. Make the MAX even more powerful and then every goober and his drooling cousin will have one. Think it's hard to take that tower guarded by 6 MAX units and 12 infantry? Imagine 18 instantly replacable even more powerful MAX units... have fun in there...

As it stands the MAX Unit's true power is a key element of a squad or platoon. They are not designed to lone wolf or rambo, but they do give a squad the armor and firepower to blast through enemy defenses.

Making the MAX more powerful or less precious of a resource will change that balance... I dont want to see PS break down into 9 MAX and 1 door opener squads. The only counter would be tanks or your own MAX horde.

Warborn · 2004-02-16, 03:32 AM

Originally Posted by BadAsh

As it stands the MAX Unit's true power is a key element of a squad or platoon. They are not designed to lone wolf or rambo, but they do give a squad the armor and firepower to blast through enemy defenses.

Firepower is HA. MAXs don't get anywhere close to the number of kills a guy with HA can get. AI MAXs are, right now, virtually useless unless you're a low BR and can't afford a good HA loadout (not surprising that most non-AA MAXs have low-BR colors then, is it?). The only reason a 40 man MAX team would win is because there simply aren't enough Decimators in some random zerg group to account for all of them. They win by surprising the enemy with something they aren't prepared for, and that's all. They do not win because MAXs are exceptionally good. In fact, were they all to attack at once, they'd be successful not only because 40 MAXs is totally unexpected, but because 40 guys at any one place during a random zerg will cause the line to bend if not break. 40 HA Surgiles attacking at once would definitely have far more success than 40 MAXs, but 40 MAXs is more fun for a gimmick I'm sure.

IMHO there are already too many damn MAX units running around. It's very difficult to have a good, knock down, infantry fight without someone grabbing a MAX and causing the battle to turn into "He who weapon switches the fastest wins"... L A M E...

I find that very hard to believe. Most fights are done between HA infantry with no AI/AV MAXs present. TR MAXs like to spam from a distance (God I hope the patch fixes that), but otherwise MAXs are hardly the focus of fights, the HA infantry is.

Making the MAX more powerful or less precious of a resource will change that balance... I dont want to see PS break down into 9 MAX and 1 door opener squads. The only counter would be tanks or your own MAX horde.

The counter would be Decimators, AV, and your own MAXs. And when you kill them you can look forward to them waiting for their timer to end. Again, we're not asking for MAXs to be virtually invulnerable to infantry. We don't want infantry to be useless against MAXs. At most I'd like to see AI/AV MAXs get a significant armor boost. It's hard to pinpoint a number, but they need to be able to endure far more than they can currently to be worth it. If I had to guess, I'd say probably in the neighborhood of 1000 armor, give or take a hundred. At this point they are killed way too quickly in fights, and that needs to change.

AA MAXs do their job well and I think they're fine, although I do think that maybe Reaver rockets should have a smaller blast, but that's another topic altogether.

Dharkbayne · 2004-02-16, 04:06 AM

A. Make it so you can get out of the MAX, you can't get back in, and you only have the spawn equipment

2. 1k armor, atleast

III. BUFF THE DAMN AV MAXES. SERIOUSLY.

D. Quit nerfing shit. Buff other things up to par, don't take everything down.

Fenrys · 2004-02-16, 04:55 AM

Originally Posted by BadAsh

This happens all the time on Markov. I guess, not being from that server, you have never seen one of EVILPIGS MAX crash teams... they all gather in the base tower and charge on queue... battle over.

I'm a more-or-less full time member of the Devil Dog's MCT on Markov (when I'm not playing a VS on Emerald). We spend most of our time running and waiting and get maybe 5% of the # of kills that we could get solo, but 95% of the time wherever we crash gets its tubes knocked down in under 1 minute. Meaning we get plenty of base Cap xp.

Most of our playtime is wasted just getting set up, but on the occasions that we do see actual combat, anything not in a MAX suit is just another "squishy" to roll over. We might die once or twice per continent.

Let me say that again, since its fairly important.

By the time a continent has changed colors from solid purple/red to solid blue, each member of the MCT has died maybe twice if that.

When there is only 1 squad or less, things change, but when you get 20+ MAXs to turn on their shields and ignore everything until they've run into to the spawn room, those tubes ARE going down. The only way to get 'em back up is to bumrush the waiting MCT . . . wich gives the squishies on our team a chance to get inside the base.

However, there are still nuts that we can't crack. The VS give us trouble with all their MAX's, and the TR sometimes camp their own spawn rooms with decimators at the ready.

On Emerald there is often a full Reaver-only platoon that the VS run, but it is not NEARLY as effective. Our 30 reavers have been turned away by 5 skyguards.

BadAsh · 2004-02-16, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by Fenrys

Let me say that again, since its fairly important.

By the time a continent has changed colors from solid purple/red to solid blue, each member of the MCT has died maybe twice if that.

When there is only 1 squad or less, things change, but when you get 20+ MAXs to turn on their shields and ignore everything until they've run into to the spawn room, those tubes ARE going down. The only way to get 'em back up is to bumrush the waiting MCT . . . wich gives the squishies on our team a chance to get inside the base.

However, there are still nuts that we can't crack. The VS give us trouble with all their MAX's, and the TR sometimes camp their own spawn rooms with decimators at the ready.

On Emerald there is often a full Reaver-only platoon that the VS run, but it is not NEARLY as effective. Our 30 reavers have been turned away by 5 skyguards.

I hear ya man and I've seen this with my own eyes. It's brutal. Either you quickly take the base OR reduce the enemy to defending from their own spawn. Soon you control the CC and Gen and everything else just from MAX pressure.

Emerald seems much less organized than Markov. Markov has the Reaver platoons, I've been part of a 5 Galaxy drop... yes, that's 60 guys raining down on an enemy base, EVILPIGS MAX Crash teams - also adopted by the VS, and REDX's crushing Prowler/Skyguard armor columns. You just don't see this on Emerald.

As part of a team MAX units have a LONG lifespan. Making them more powerful would be rediculas.

Let's take the example suggestion here... increase MAX armor to 1,000. At 650 it takes 7 striker hits... now it would take 11... that's 2 full clips +1 hit assuming you don't miss... 7 is already a joke.

Nerfing the Deci to require 4 hits... MAX Crash teams will own even harder... the TR will have NO defense... so even the feeble spawn room deci defending won't work... Now MCT MAX players can expect to take a whole cont (12+) bases without dying once. Yeah, that's balance and fairness...

Dyentious · 2004-02-16, 06:21 AM

Those last 2 posts just reinforce what I said before..

you might die a bunch whn you get in a MAX and go run out into the zerg without any strategy, but if you use it with a TEAM, in a PLAN, they are extremely powerful. The really don't need to be any more powerful jsut so you can kick ass without having to use your brain

Veteran · 2004-02-16, 06:24 AM

Decimator is effective when used by a lone trooper. No need to use it in teams, or to have a plan other than "own any MAX in sight".

Cheese I says.

Candle · 2004-02-16, 06:50 AM

I think that there is an easy solution:

there are two types of armour: vehicule and infantry. MAX units have vehicule armour. Give the MAX infaltry armour, and the deci will do considerably less damage to a MAX, you could even buff the deci damage so that it actually hurts a tank/etc. instead of tickling it.

This way, you increase the MAX efectiveness greatly with very little change, you'd see many more people certing MAX (Can I point out that AI MAX == 3 certs == rexo == MBT)

As VS, my alt is a uni-max/inf/adv hacking so I always have something to do wether its a cont. opening (no tower etc) or a full scale zerg (MAX) I rarely use my MAX in anything other than a zerg.