PvP, PvE, PvPvE?

[DashRev]

Originally Posted by Tool

Fair enough, I recognize the counter to what I said. I can't imagine that a large feature like AI or other PvE elements would be something they'd see from the forums and change the game drastically to implement, wouldn't you agree? It would seem silly for one and the people in charge of this project have been in the buisness for a while. Assuming they'd do the above mentioned isn't giving them enough credit I think.

And if people simply didn't post ideas out of fear of reprisal from the community, well, that's just absurd. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you have to plaster your preferances all over an idea or concept for fear of it making it in the game.

When things like that happen, it pretty much stops being a community.

To address your first point, I think the most we've seen so far out of SOE regarding PvE in PS2 (lol acronyms) is that they're considering it. We've seen virtually nothing in terms of details or even what they mean by PvE. So to say that either PvE or an advanced AI amounts to a "large feature" might be grasping at something that isn't there, at least for now.

I'm more inclined to believe, given how little information we've seen, that it is by no means too late to say, "We don't want PvE. Don't invest resources in it."

As for your second point, I think you started this thread with the question: "How would you like to see PvE work?" and the response you got from most people was, "We don't." That may not have been the response you were hoping for or expecting, but its certainly not an invalid one. The community, as it is limited to these forums, is telling both you and SOE that we don't want to invest any time thinking about how to implement PvE and we don't want to see SOE investing the time either. At the very least, not now.

[Tool]

Originally Posted by DashRev

To address your first point, I think the most we've seen so far out of SOE regarding PvE in PS2 (lol acronyms) is that they're considering it. We've seen virtually nothing in terms of details or even what they mean by PvE. So to say that either PvE or an advanced AI amounts to a "large feature" might be grasping at something that isn't there, at least for now.

I'm more inclined to believe, given how little information we've seen, that it is by no means too late to say, "We don't want PvE. Don't invest resources in it."

As for your second point, I think you started this thread with the question: "How would you like to see PvE work?" and the response you got from most people was, "We don't." That may not have been the response you were hoping for or expecting, but its certainly not an invalid one. The community, as it is limited to these forums, is telling both you and SOE that we don't want to invest any time thinking about how to implement PvE and we don't want to see SOE investing the time either. At the very least, not now.

The unfortunate thing is there isn't enough people posting here to actually effectively gauge that idea, that many players don't want it. I've said a few times I don't even want it but with such a lax concern regarding current to future development of, what's the harm in discussion?

It may be that many players didn't play or trial Planetside because it had no PvE element. I don't know.

Why take such offense at a concept or idea if you suspect so strongly that it was merely a fluke suggestion made by Smedly? Is it really that harmful to talk about a non-existant feature then?

I've spent so much time simply defending the concept of just talking about PvE rather than discussing ideas that people probably dont want to post because there's hounds ready to jump all over the notion of potiential or what they might see as fun.

Like I said, if there's such a strong rally against PvE why would they even suggest a potential plan for it? Was he joking when he said it?

[opticalshadow]

Originally Posted by The Desert Fox

It is a disappointment you don't want any of your ideas implemented because I for one love almost everything you just sayed! Devs listen to this lol!

i also love the ideas, but the reason i dont want them implemented is the game isnt being bnuilt for pve, there will be core issues.

for example, how many enemies will we be able to have, with all three empires being maxed on the cont at once?

the game will be balenced between players, and you have to make it fair for non pve'ers, meaning what the actual events could achomplish have to either alienate chunks of players, or have rewards that are lesser then the time it takes to do it.

AI, is rearely decent it will be difficult to keep such large scale enounters from becoming giant bfr esk wars, such as large creatueres who deal tons of dmg adn take ages to kill.

i may change my mind, but i need more info on whats being concidered, cause even with great gameplay features, the actual cretures might just be boring to deal with.

[Lunarchild]

There's actually one type of PvE that I don't mind seeing in Planetside 2 at all: Training Bots that are actually worth something.

I think it would be interesting to train solo / squad / platoon / outfit situations in VR where you can set-up a training situation in advance and then get people in to carry it out. Have it so the initiator can set up some terrain, spawn some bots and give them some basic behaviour, then get the players in and run through the training.

Heck, maybe even give the trainer an option to pause the simulation so he can point stuff out.

All of this should be for the long term though, not for launch

[DashRev]

Originally Posted by Tool

The unfortunate thing is there isn't enough people posting here to actually effectively gauge that idea, that many players don't want it. I've said a few times I don't even want it but with such a lax concern regarding current to future development of, what's the harm in discussion?

It may be that many players didn't play or trial Planetside because it had no PvE element. I don't know.

Why take such offense at a concept or idea if you suspect so strongly that it was merely a fluke suggestion made by Smedly? Is it really that harmful to talk about a non-existant feature then?

I've spent so much time simply defending the concept of just talking about PvE rather than discussing ideas that people probably dont want to post because there's hounds ready to jump all over the notion of potiential or what they might see as fun.

Like I said, if there's such a strong rally against PvE why would they even suggest a potential plan for it? Was he joking when he said it?

I agree that this is a phenomenally small sample size to make any kind of judgement about the overall feelings of the community. But even acknowledging that, there are maybe one or two people people here who have supported the idea of PvE in PS2. Even you say you're not a fan of the idea. I don't think you need an exhaustive poll to say that the majority of past and current PS1 players would be hesitant if not outright against PvE as a gameplay focus.

I doubt that there is truly an oppressed subset of forum members terrified to express their opinion for fear that they have to defend it. Even if there were, pro-PvE players should have to defend their opinion, given that they are almost certainly in the minority of PS players. In the face of such strong opposition, I think its entirely reasonable for them to have to make the argument for why their iteration of PvE in PS2 should exist at all.

In the sequel to a game whose focus is 100% PvP, why you should implement PvE is more important than the discussion about how you should implement PvE.

[Rbstr]

Originally Posted by Tool

Read your statement again. It is impossible to tell if you're saying:
The hypothetical situation of someone not posting an idea because of others is absurd
or
that not posting an idea because of others is absurd.

English works like that. Especially with your second sentence telling people not to say the idea is dumb. As that could invoke the hypothetical.

[CrystalViolet]

I wouldn't be apposed to instances where a large alien ship appears over the battlefield. Let's say this alien race has access to an extremely rare resource that can't be found on the planet. Each faction would then attempt to fight their way to the core of the ship and capture this resource before a set amount of time passes and the ship explodes. Make it very difficult to achieve this goal, and have the ship spawn rate be very low (maybe once a week at random times). The interior of the ship could be randomly generated and maze like, so each instance would require team work and new strategies to hunt down the core. Fighting would be a combination of encounters with other faction's soldiers as well as traps and NPC mobs.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Bags

At least we generally have good reasons for disliking the new stuff.

Honestly I haven't heard a good reason yet. I've heard a lot of opinions of "I don't like it" and "I don't want it in the game ever!" but no reasons. The people against it have an idea in their head and won't share it. Apparently openly talking about what one would see as a problem is too hard for them. They need to explain what they think will happen so we can address those concerns with solutions.

Saying something along the lines of "I don't want humanoid characters because I foresee the AI not working" isn't a viable complaint either. I can't speak for everyone, but I program for a living, and some of the silliness people spout when it comes to technical problems is absurd. If you don't know what you're talking about then don't make the comment. If anything just assume it's possible since that's 100 times better than assuming everything is impossible and fighting an argument based on it.

Originally Posted by DashRev

But even acknowledging that, there are maybe one or two people people here who have supported the idea of PvE in PS2.

If you want to see how the community feels about creatures in PvE you can view this thread.

You'll see that while passive creatures are supported, it's the hostile creatures that we've had a problem converting people into liking. Most of the people that are for passive creatures haven't explained why they don't like hostile ones. I imagine it's because they'd detract from the core PvP combat which is understandable. Designing a system where this doesn't happen is important. I think we can all agree on that.

[Tool]

Originally Posted by CViolet

I wouldn't be apposed to instances where a large alien ship appears over the battlefield. Let's say this alien race has access to an extremely rare resource that can't be found on the planet. Each faction would then attempt to fight their way to the core of the ship and capture this resource before a set amount of time passes and the ship explodes. Make it very difficult to achieve this goal, and have the ship spawn rate be very low (maybe once a week at random times). The interior of the ship could be randomly generated and maze like, so each instance would require team work and new strategies to hunt down the core. Fighting would be a combination of encounters with other faction's soldiers as well as traps and NPC mobs.

That's a really cool idea actually, like a beefed up rabbit event lol.

[CrystalViolet]

Originally Posted by Tool

That's a really cool idea actually, like a beefed up rabbit event lol.

thanks, I think it might offer a nice way to add a little bit of variety to the gameplay, without straying too much from what Planetside is all about. Not sure exactly what the reward should be, but maybbe something along the lines of special insanely rare upgrades/customization options for outfits.

[opticalshadow]

Originally Posted by Tool

That's a really cool idea actually, like a beefed up rabbit event lol.

the problem with this type of event reward is it makes it mandatory for a group of players to play to gain a resource, this means that players who are wholy oppsed to the idea, are forced to play anyway if they want a resource.

thats hwo you begin to alienate your playerbase, forcing such gameplay features on a player that they do not want. any rewards for an event that is eithe greatly not wanted, or ignored by a playerbase should not be something thats game effecting.

i wouldnt mind gear changes that give you "skins" for your armor or weapons, maybe alternitive weapons all togheter that are just retexture packs (for example, instead of a cycler, the tr could gain a alien based gun with the same dmg, rof, cone and ever other statistic but it looks diffrent and fires diffrent looking ammo)
but once you offer a reward that changes gameplay, you are going to force people who dont want to be there to be there.

[CrystalViolet]

Agree 100%. Any rewards from these raids would be purely prestige based. I like the idea of alien skins.

[Raymac]

Originally Posted by CViolet

I wouldn't be apposed to instances where a large alien ship appears over the battlefield. Let's say this alien race has access to an extremely rare resource that can't be found on the planet. Each faction would then attempt to fight their way to the core of the ship and capture this resource before a set amount of time passes and the ship explodes. Make it very difficult to achieve this goal, and have the ship spawn rate be very low (maybe once a week at random times). The interior of the ship could be randomly generated and maze like, so each instance would require team work and new strategies to hunt down the core. Fighting would be a combination of encounters with other faction's soldiers as well as traps and NPC mobs.

That is a pretty cool idea. The one major hurdle I forsee is that the word "instance" is as vulgar as "PvE" to this community. I'm on the side of fun unique fresh events, so count me in, just so long as they are only occasional events, like once or twice a year tops.

[DashRev]

Originally Posted by Raymac

That is a pretty cool idea. The one major hurdle I forsee is that the word "instance" is as vulgar as "PvE" to this community. I'm on the side of fun unique fresh events, so count me in, just so long as they are only occasional events, like once or twice a year tops.

I may be mistaken, but I read "instances" as "occurrences" rather than individualized zones for small numbers of players.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Raymac

like once or twice a year tops.

Sucks if they are fun. Trying to tell your friend about it. "But yeah it'll happen again in 6 months, so you don't want to sub, and it only goes on for a day so if you don't log in you'll miss it". :P

I'd much prefer like monthly events so that at least people playing for only a month can enjoy something different.