If SOE told you these things about PS2 Months ago...

[Tigersmith]

Originally Posted by Crator

Stop blowing speculation out of proportion. Speculation is cool to talk about, but let's not talk about it as if it were fact. No one knows for sure how the game will play. And won't until we hit beta.

soo hard to wait this long ahhhhhh

[basti]

Okay, correction: your opinion is based on being completly clueless.

"Classes" dont exist since WOW. Classes exist since, well, Everquest? Maybe even before that, dunno.

Point is, the games that used free systems always had a problem: Players could sooner or later just stack stuff. They always did. True, the inventory system fixes that, but only to a certain degree.


Lets make something up here: Lets take planetside as a base, and planetside 2 as the follow up.

In planetside, you could easily stack stuff to a certain point, as long as your inventory and your certs allowed. If you didnt spend any points in vehicles, you could easily get rexo, HA, AV, MED, Engi, hacking and CE, ADV med or Adv hack. IF you just went with ADV hack, you were set, completly, for all possible indoor situations. Screw HAcking completly and you got CE and ADV med and the ATV.
And you should know loadouts enough, as well as indoor combat, to know that you would be able to get enough med and engi stuff, as well as 2 decis, the HA and enough ammo to be fine for quite a while indoors.
Did it work in planetside? hell yes it did, and we all enjoyed it.

But heres the thing: the moment they added BR25, the weakness of the system appeared. YOu suddenly had 3 more points, and if you just spend them right, you could also get SA, or a Max, or mossy, or whatever. YOu know the way you use to do it. Still, works. Heck, even till BR40 it worked. You were still limited because of the inventory, just that you now can also drive all vehicles.

But heres the thing: Thats the issue! First of all, you could, till BR40, be only a super indoor grunt, or the guy with a reaver, a mag and a galaxy. You were limited in that way, completly, and the only way to break out was by creating another character, or recerting. Recerting never was an option to quickly change your style, and leveling a new char ended got pointless the moment you had to switch, and it is annoying to switch every time the situation changes.

Now, planetside 2: In order to keep players happy, you need to give them goals. New equipment for your weapons and vehicles is a good goal, and keeps alot of people occupied and happy. But you cant just mindlessly add new stuff to the game, because the moment you have that cool new stuff, players ask for more points to spend (heck, we did that with the CE upgrade as well as the hacking upgrade). You give them those points, and suddenly you have those super indoor grunts again. But they wont just stack the usual powerful weapons, no, they will stack the super powerful weapons, because they can. So you have two options: dont give them super powerful stuff, means alot of equipment options, alot of cool new stuff wont ever be possible, OR, and thats the better solution: dont allow players to be completly freeform. And thers another big benefit: you can actually do everything! Hop in a tank, drive for a bit, die, respawn as a Heavy assault guy and defend a base indoors. Base defended, switch to something light, hop into a mossy and have some dogfighting. Instead of being the Super indoor grunt and just that, you are now a indoor grunt that cant do everything at the same time, but you can now easily just switch to something else and fly a plane, or drive a tank, or in the future hopefully, drive a boat, pilot a space fighter, whatever.

In my eyes, thats alot more fun. You may disagree, and you have all right to do so, but most people rather just switch roles and do something else than just hopping from base to base to do indoor fighting.

[p0intman]

Originally Posted by basti

Okay, correction: your opinion is based on being completly clueless.

"Classes" dont exist since WOW. Classes exist since, well, Everquest? Maybe even before that, dunno.

Point is, the games that used free systems always had a problem: Players could sooner or later just stack stuff. They always did. True, the inventory system fixes that, but only to a certain degree.


Lets make something up here: Lets take planetside as a base, and planetside 2 as the follow up.

In planetside, you could easily stack stuff to a certain point, as long as your inventory and your certs allowed. If you didnt spend any points in vehicles, you could easily get rexo, HA, AV, MED, Engi, hacking and CE, ADV med or Adv hack. IF you just went with ADV hack, you were set, completly, for all possible indoor situations. Screw HAcking completly and you got CE and ADV med and the ATV.
And you should know loadouts enough, as well as indoor combat, to know that you would be able to get enough med and engi stuff, as well as 2 decis, the HA and enough ammo to be fine for quite a while indoors.
Did it work in planetside? hell yes it did, and we all enjoyed it.

But heres the thing: the moment they added BR25, the weakness of the system appeared. YOu suddenly had 3 more points, and if you just spend them right, you could also get SA, or a Max, or mossy, or whatever. YOu know the way you use to do it. Still, works. Heck, even till BR40 it worked. You were still limited because of the inventory, just that you now can also drive all vehicles.

But heres the thing: Thats the issue! First of all, you could, till BR40, be only a super indoor grunt, or the guy with a reaver, a mag and a galaxy. You were limited in that way, completly, and the only way to break out was by creating another character, or recerting. Recerting never was an option to quickly change your style, and leveling a new char ended got pointless the moment you had to switch, and it is annoying to switch every time the situation changes.

Now, planetside 2: In order to keep players happy, you need to give them goals. New equipment for your weapons and vehicles is a good goal, and keeps alot of people occupied and happy. But you cant just mindlessly add new stuff to the game, because the moment you have that cool new stuff, players ask for more points to spend (heck, we did that with the CE upgrade as well as the hacking upgrade). You give them those points, and suddenly you have those super indoor grunts again. But they wont just stack the usual powerful weapons, no, they will stack the super powerful weapons, because they can. So you have two options: dont give them super powerful stuff, means alot of equipment options, alot of cool new stuff wont ever be possible, OR, and thats the better solution: dont allow players to be completly freeform. And thers another big benefit: you can actually do everything! Hop in a tank, drive for a bit, die, respawn as a Heavy assault guy and defend a base indoors. Base defended, switch to something light, hop into a mossy and have some dogfighting. Instead of being the Super indoor grunt and just that, you are now a indoor grunt that cant do everything at the same time, but you can now easily just switch to something else and fly a plane, or drive a tank, or in the future hopefully, drive a boat, pilot a space fighter, whatever.

In my eyes, thats alot more fun. You may disagree, and you have all right to do so, but most people rather just switch roles and do something else than just hopping from base to base to do indoor fighting.

point one: Calling me clueless is to insist that I've not read and fully understood their intent and reasoning. The truth is that I have, and think their reasoning is insufficent and further that their idea of game design is poor.

point two: EQ, WoW, LOTRO, RIFT... all basically the same thing to me. Doesn't really matter.

point three: i think its a product of flawed and poor game design, from a desire to appeal to CoD/BF/MOH kiddies. Theres reasoning I don't play them or support them or their developers.

And if Matt wants to go copy EA/Infinity Ward/etc... I'll stop supporting him and Smed.

Very simple.

BTW: Reason I don't support them is because they're not innovative and do the same shit all over again. PS1 has something unique going on. PS2 merges CoD with PS, expands the map and fucks it up.

Someone email me when something interesting and worthwhile comes out again.

PS: On one hit kills:

lol, remember stuff like this?

Watch.

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by basti

stuff

don't get me wrong, the class system has benefits, it was a pain in the arse to get stuck at a bridge battle without snipping and a recert timer.

I'm just concerned about classes that can't do anything except their main job, i can see suiciding lots to change to a class with weapons suitable for the current fight.

[Raymac]

There are alot of words in this debate but it just boils down to 1 thing.

P0intman (and others) wants to have his HA/AV/Eng/Med loadout. Bottom line, thats it. Since it looks like that won't be an option, he's not happy. All the debating in the world is just about this fundamental point. Bottom line is, Planetside 2 is going to be different. If you don't like it enough to where you don't want to buy the game, nobody is forcing you too. I'm sure your friends will miss you. However, if you think a simple reskin of Planetside was going to do anything other than give it another 3-6 months of "life" then you are sadly mistaken. Planetside is fucking dead.

For Planetside 2 to exceed Planetside 1, it will HAVE to be different, and one of those differences is having actual roles, kinda like the early days of PS, remember? One of the big improvements on that concept is that you'll never again hear "Oh I don't have that cert on this character, let me switch to an alt." because you can level up any skill you want. Do not fear change. If you still hate it, well I'm sorry.

[PsychoXR-20]

I'm happy knowing that for every one pointman who will not play this game a 100 other people who wouldn't have played PS1 will play PS2.

If you don't play PS2 pointman, no one will miss you.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by p0intman

point three: i think its a product of flawed and poor game design, from a desire to appeal to CoD/BF/MOH kiddies. Theres reasoning I don't play them or support them or their developers.

Strange to be called a BF 'kiddie', since I've been playing that longer than PS.


I for one am quite happy with the classes. Mainly since the PS I played HAD classes. Just not for infantry. Everything else.. Yeah.. You had to pick a role and stick with it.

[Furret]

Gonna be a long post, because I'd prefer to make a new thread out of the only GOOD posts in here.

Also, this post is mostly directed toward p0intman, because he's basically the new subject of this thread ;D

Originally Posted by Raymac

I can understand some people's apprehension when it comes to new features and mechanics in Planetside 2, but frankly I think it's silly to worry about these minor details. No game is "perfect" but Planetside 2 is looking like it will be an instant classic.

When it comes down to it, I only need 3 things to love Planetside, and everything else is minor:
1) HUGE battles of hundreds of people and vehicles on large maps
2) Persistant world
3) 100% PvP skill based combat

Everything else are just minor details. Planetside 2 is going to be a new game, different from Planetside 1, and I'm fine with that because the basics are in place that make it epic.

What MOST people loved about planetside was how massive it was, having huge armor columns fight other armor columns with reavers and mossies vying for air superiority so the liberators could do their bombing, all the while snipers on the hills taking out engineers repairing the vehicles. Nothing new about planetside2 is going to change those aspects, only how you have to go about to acquire your vehicles or your sniper rifles, etc. The core of the game is still there, the only changes they've made are to attract more players, which is 100% what the game needs more than anything.

Originally Posted by p0intman

and I disagree.

You know why? Because if you can't figure out how to counter me and nine others doing the same thing, you don't deserve the base we targeted.

If you're going to hold a base with nine friends, I fail to see how it would be a bad thing to (hypothetically) force you and two friends to play the HA role, two more friends play the MAX role, three or four friends to play the medic/engineer role, and a pilot/commander to tell everyone what to do. You talk about playing with your team, but you're not actually using them, they're just shooting the same targets. I can do that with the zerg. The best part of 'teamwork' is that you have to rely on your buddy to get to your body and pick you up, or that you see your friend in danger so you jump in front of the deci so he can retreat for repairs, not merely having a lot of people in the same gen room.

Originally Posted by Crator

Stop being selfish. Other people play this game too and want things you don't want. And the more the merrier in this type of game.

This goes a tad back to my first point, the game looks to be designed to be much more mainstream than planetside 1 was, it definitely appeals more to your standard MMO player and your standard FPS player. On this subject, however, I share the same opinion as you. I love fast paced FPS as much as the next guy, but something in planetside really got me hooked, and I can't really explain it. Unfortunately, what's more important than pleasing you, me, and say 100 other hardcore planetside lovers is that we have two thousand other players from CoD or WoW who come play planetside and say "Damn, this is a great game, I'm gonna keep playing it" This game only runs smoothly with massive populations (which is ironic because that tends to make everything more laggy ) so the #1 focus of all the development should be towards getting big populations, and of course, keeping the same core of planetside 1 that we all know and love. (refer to first quote)

tl;dr

read the damn post ya lazy fucks, i spent some time on it.

[BorisBlade]

Originally Posted by Tigersmith

Remember you can only use the squad spawn features outdoors. As they stated that many times.

Still, its lame, no tactics there. Just spawn at the noob who's farthest up, no need to actually make tactical progression. And keep in mind we capture zones, so most areas will not even have indoors most likely so all the lame tactics will still work just fine. It may work great in some simplistic deathmatch game like BF but its terrible in a game with front lines. And limiting it to outdoors also means you can use it like he said to do lame squad ports to tops of towers or bases or whatever else they come up with. Thats absurd. Any monkey can get one person up to a spot then call out to spawn on ts and now you have a whole squad there. Whats the point of the galaxy then? Much better to just use the guy in the skeeter to fly over and get on the base/front or back door then have the whole squad spawn on em. Its just terrible, last i checked AMS's dont slow the game up at all. They keep tactics in for sure. If you arent close enough, get another or move the current ams. Good luck kickin out the enemy from an area with so many squad spawns, esp since there is no limit on "certs" eventually everyone will be have it and be maxed on low re-use times.

If you want to port around, use a router. Perfectly balanced with its placement and activation times, and can be countered by being destroyed at either end.

Sorry, dont mean to get so agitated, just dont like the game gettin turned into just BF with more people. I dont enjoy BF because its so zergy and very light on tactics (still 1000x better than CoD, dont get me wrong), i dont want PS2 watered down too much just for the braindead ADHD crowd.

[Furret]

Originally Posted by BorisBlade

Still, its lame, no tactics there. Just spawn at the noob who's farthest up, no need to actually make tactical progression. Its fine in some simple deathmatch game like BF but its terrible in a game with front lines. And even limiting it to outdoors still means you can use it like he said to do lame squad ports to tops of towers or bases or whatever else they come up with. Thats absurd. Any monkey can get one person up to a spot then call out to spawn on ts and now you have a whole squad there. Whats the point of the galaxy then? Much better to just use the guy in the skeeter to fly over and get on the base/front or back door then have the whole squad spawn on em. Its just terrible, last i checked AMS's dont slow the game up at all. They keep tactics in for sure. If you arent close enough, get another or move the current ams. Good luck kickin out the enemy from an area with so many squad spawns, esp since there is no limit on "certs" eventually everyone will be have it and be maxed on low re-use times.

Sorry, dont mean to get so agitated, just dont like the game gettin turned into just BF with more people. I dont enjoy BF because its so zergy and very light on tactics, i dont want it watered down too much for the braindead ADHD crowd.

Though this is actually something I'm definitely not liking one bit. Sneaking through the front lines to flank your enemy was not something that happened very often, sneaking a squad was near impossible.
With this feature, you get a cloaked squad leader to run up behind a sniper nest, spawns in his whole squad, takes out the sniper nest, then begins to rain fire down on the enemy from behind, way too easy to do, everyone would have to watch their backs 24/7

[Crator]

Originally Posted by Furret

<Good Post>

Well said

[PsychoXR-20]

Originally Posted by Furret

Though this is actually something I'm definitely not liking one bit. Sneaking through the front lines to flank your enemy was not something that happened very often, sneaking a squad was near impossible.
With this feature, you get a cloaked squad leader to run up behind a sniper nest, spawns in his whole squad, takes out the sniper nest, then begins to rain fire down on the enemy from behind, way too easy to do, everyone would have to watch their backs 24/7

I'm pretty sure it was mentioned that the squad spawning will have a cooldown of sorts.

[Furret]

OS's have cooldowns, but its not like you can let your guard down.

Besides, there would be more squad leaders than CR5's

And wait for it... my spawn squad is on cooldown, better promote the number 2 so he can do it, then to #3, etc...

[PsychoXR-20]

Originally Posted by Furret

OS's have cooldowns, but its not like you can let your guard down.

Besides, there would be more squad leaders than CR5's

And wait for it... my spawn squad is on cooldown, better promote the number 2 so he can do it, then to #3, etc...

You're assuming that:

A. The entire squad is capable of spawning on the squad leader at once.
B. That the squad cooldown is player specific, not squad specific.
C. That every member of the squad has developed their squad leading tree far enough to squad spawning, in which case I welcome you to all spawn on top of me as I will make quick work of you and your inability to perform in combat.

[Furret]

A i'll agree, we don't know if that's true or not.
B i'd say is a given, even if it was squad specific they could all just disband and remake with another leader, there'd be no good way to stop that.
C you're assuming squad spawning is far up the tree. It may be, may not be. But even if 10 guys naked with knives spawned behind you they'd still kill you before you could get all of them