TR Max lockdown - Not again!

[Raymac]

Did this thread really turn into the Great TR Max Debate again? Why don't we just start talking about the Lasher while we're at it?

[Hamma]

About the lasher..

Damn thing!

[NapalmEnima]

Lock down is a rock-solid defensive ability. When you know the enemy is coming from That-a-way, TR MAXes can put all kinds of pain there. Not so handy for AA (though they could make the other empires PAY for hovering too long, particularly with no "lock on tone" warning) but great for AI indoors.

NC's shield always struck me as more of an offensive ability (particularly for the scatter cannon). Get in close relatively unharmed, then unleash hell.

VS's jump jets were more about creating options (and dodging to some degree). They could defend (AA in particular) or attack from directions other MAXes couldn't.

Edit:

Seems pretty balanced to me.

And while TR MAXes in PS2 will have the lock-down ability, T-Rays comment leads me to believe that's not the only ability they'll have (though they may have to pick one at a time, remains to be seen).

[moosepoop]

TR maxes have long range weapons, but their ability only allows for door camping. the concept is flawed.


either give large defensive bonuses to lockdown, or remove lockdown and buff overcharge.


the way some people keep claiming things are balanced to suit their own agenda, or out of sheer ignorance and stupidity, is disgusting. that should happen only in mmos, not planetside.

[NapalmEnima]

Originally Posted by moosepoop

TR maxes have long range weapons, but their ability only allows for door camping. the concept is flawed.


either give large defensive bonuses to lockdown, or remove lockdown and buff overcharge.

the way some people keep claiming things are balanced to suit their own agenda, or out of sheer ignorance and stupidity, is disgusting. that should happen only in mmos, not planetside.

Speaking of sheer ignorance and stupidity... Planetside IS an MMO.

You're ignoring the "can't bedevil your opponents" option that some folks who have actually played all three types of MAXes still think they're balanced.

I happen to be one of them. I simply disagree with you.

Furthermore, I don't think the goal of lock-down is to let TR MAXes be vastly more effective at long range than other MAXes. It has that effect outdoors, but comes at a serious risk (getting horribly slain while stationary). It also increases your DPS significantly, at all ranges, including the shorter ranges where other empires' MAXes are effective.


And in PS2, I suspect you'll be able to train to improve the lockdown delay. A BR20 MAX specialist just might be able to lock and unlock in half a second or less (each). That's a pretty big deal. You might also be able to train some sort of "directional damage protection while locked down" thing, say half from the front/double from the back (when fully trained), as your armor/shields are reconfigured. We simply don't know yet.

[Kalbuth]

Since when did TR turn into VS crybabies?


(mind you, I'm an ex-VS crybaby)

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by NapalmEnima

And in PS2, I suspect you'll be able to train to improve the lockdown delay. A BR20 MAX specialist just might be able to lock and unlock in half a second or less (each). That's a pretty big deal.

but they'll still need to be balanced either locked or unlocked, and you can't balance both unless there's something to limit the time it can be used for, which is pretty much where overdrive came from

[kaffis]

Originally Posted by Redshift

but they'll still need to be balanced either locked or unlocked, and you can't balance both unless there's something to limit the time it can be used for, which is pretty much where overdrive came from

That's like saying that NC MAXes have to be balanced either shielded or unshielded. It's absurd on its face. You balance them with the OPTION of locking down. Obviously, that option will be taken where it's advantageous, and not where it's not.

[Baneblade]

The only thing TR MAXes need is for the lock down mode to give them bunny ears and tail. Oh and a shield that works like the nc shield. But only actionable when locked down.

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by kaffis

That's like saying that NC MAXes have to be balanced either shielded or unshielded. It's absurd on its face. You balance them with the OPTION of locking down. Obviously, that option will be taken where it's advantageous, and not where it's not.

NC MAXes can't shoot with the shield up, it's also on a time limit, NC MAXes don't need to be balanced with a shield because it's use to cover distance.

TR MAXes have two different DPS's you have to balance around one of them, either you balance for the unlocked in which case lockdown is overpowered when it can be used or you balance for lockdown in which unlocked is gimped.

To make a balancable version of lockdown it would need to be instant, have a recharge timer and last a few seconds, allowing for a short increased DPS where it can easily be adjusted to keep TTK's similar

[NapalmEnima]

Originally Posted by Redshift

TR MAXes have two different DPS's you have to balance around one of them, either you balance for the unlocked in which case lockdown is overpowered when it can be used or you balance for lockdown in which unlocked is gimped.

OR you balance unlocked DPS against other MAXes, then balance locked down DPS with that whole "I can't move" thing plus delays to enter and exit that state.

So both are balanced: The regular DPS is balanced against other MAXes, AND the locked down DPS boost is balances against the extra vulnerability.

[kaffis]

Yup, Napalm's got it right.

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by NapalmEnima

OR you balance unlocked DPS against other MAXes, then balance locked down DPS with that whole "I can't move" thing plus delays to enter and exit that state.

except what you actually get is ungodly powerful MAXes in certain situations and shit MAXes in other

[NapalmEnima]

Originally Posted by Redshift

except what you actually get is ungodly powerful MAXes in certain situations and shit MAXes in other

Q: In a base's hallway, where jumping doesn't matter, how is an unlocked TR MAX any different from a VS MAX?

A: One is purple, the other is red.

I didn't use NC's Scattercannons as an example here because they are great in close quarters, and fairly worthless at long range. This too balances indoor vs outdoor performance (or at least tries to, I think scattercannons could stand to be dialed down a notch at point blank and up a notch or two at long range where they are WORTHLESS).

[Kouza]

Don`t see a problem, the main problem with them currently is third person camping.