Higby Wants Your Thoughts on Iron Sights for FPS.....

[Tapman]

I am perfectly fine with having Iron Sights on each gun as the first option available. Make the next one or two options unlock within a fairly low amount of time i.e. an hour or two for the first, 4-8 hours for the second so people have to work for it. There are going to be so many sidegrades to unlock that I am sure almost everyone will find their preference in some form or another, whether it be iron sights, a scope of some kind, or an advanced stock that allows for a little more accuracy from hip-fire assuming you even need it. (Not so much for shotguns or miniguns!) I can't imagine how anyone could have cause for concern this early about something so trivial based on the limited amount of gameplay footage we've even seen up to this point, let alone the actual time spent showing involving soldiers firing at each other for more than a second or two.

Now that we've got that cleared up/tabled until Beta, how about people put in their ideas for what sidegrades they want to see on the different types of weapons. If you have an unusual preference, tell the devs! You never know who else might benefit from the option! I don't know if it will make a difference though if you're TR or VS, we have the Velociraptor launcher.

[EASyEightyEight]

I don't mind ironsights, but I do think ironsighting and shoulder-firing should be a choice without uneven consequences. Standing still or crouched, the accuracy firing from the shoulder or while ADS shouldn't be any different (do note, ADS does not necessarily mean bullets fire in a laser thin stream, that's a CoD thing.)

However, while moving, ADS would slow the user down to a hasty walk, but obviously tighten their accuracy. Likewise, the user could simply fire from the shoulder and maintain full running speed, but their shots won't be nearly as accurate. They shouldn't be as inaccurate as they would get in CoD however.

And just to state for the record, I too would prefer if movement had some momentum to it. I think switching movement directions in an instant without needing to fight inertia looks stupid. Halo did it right.

[Elude]

I absolutely love run and gun gameplay, I grew up on twitch shooters, and I still play games like Quake today religiously.

However I disagree with the OP, Planetside 2 NEEDS iron sights, or more accurately it needs to be a slow paced game. Twitch based fast run and gun gameplay would be a nightmare on hit detection for a game like this.

[Captain1nsaneo]

Been away from the forums a lot recently so I've only read 3 pages but...

Everything in a good game is balanced. What do iron sights give you? An accuracy bonus. We've always had ways of being more accurate at the cost of something else. Prior to iron sights this was crouching. Iron sights are much faster than crouching and bring with them additional limitation of field of view.

However, it seems that people don't like iron sights because it "Slows down game play". I agree, the time between you see the enemy and you pull the trigger is increased by the time it takes you to go into iron sights or it slows down because you're always in iron sights and walking around slowly.

So the desire is to make iron sights useful but not slow down move speed?

Let's think about how we can do this while keeping it balanced. We can reduce field of view, we can make iron sights's accuracy affected by how fast you're moving, and we can reduce damage (makes sense as improved accuracy is simply a way of skill directly buffing damage as fewer shots miss).

I'd argue for a reduced field of vision combined with accuracy not being nearly as high if you're running or jumping while in iron sights being the ways to balance it, or reduce the damage a bit while in iron sights but keep the accuracy high while moving at full speed (heck, you could modulate damage based on move speed, standing still = more damage. Might be a way to combat retarded insta-deaths.). Make walking have either no or a very tiny decrease in accuracy and you'll allow people having ranged fights to still move. (Although, now that Shift is sprint I don't know what button walking would be, perhaps control as C is typically crouch now.)

Note: Some weapons don't need iron sights to be effective, CoD4's P90 and most shotguns are prefect examples of this. Note that none of these are effective long range weapons by nature.
(Playing with a pump shotgun is like gambling, it's addictive and you can't win forever.)


tl;dr:
Accuracy bonus needs to be balanced by penalizing other things. If you don't want it to be move speed suggest other things.

[Reginald]

The problem I find is not with the iron sights themselves but with how hip fire is handled. Take CoD for instance, aimed fire = accurate, hip fire = anywhere withing the crosshairs. The problem is they make the cone of fire too wide. Its a gun if you point it in one direction the bullets will go in that general direction. Too many a time have I fired a shot 4 foot away from a wall only to see the bullet hole 7 foot up and to the left of the center of the screen. Thats just wrong.

[Alaska]

I enjoy iron sights, but I also can do without. Like Captain said, "Everything in a good game is balanced". Certain games are meant to have them, some are not. Some have a mixture.

As long as it fits perfectly into Planetside gameplay, it should be all good. =]]

[DviddLeff]

I love iron sights and always wanted them to be in ps2.

They reward tactical play rather than run and gun as the methodical group will have much more of an advantage over a bunch that just runs about.

I want them to slow the player down and restrict their view while rewarding them with near perfect accuracy; that's the way it should be.

[Xyntech]

They just need to avoid making "hip firing" worthless just to promote iron sites.

Iron sites should be another way to increase accuracy, but it should only really give a large advantage at long ranges.

Make iron sites give a bit of an accuracy/kickback/bloom boost, and make crouching give some too. Just don't make regular firing worthless.

Edit: also I would make iron sites slow down the players move speed a bit, but not much, certainly not like crouching. I think that movement should affect accuracy at all times though, iron sites or hip firing. The faster you move, the more it affects it, regardless of what else you are doing.

Again, moving while gunning shouldn't be useless, it should just be a tactical decision. Up close, ADADAD while firing from the hip should make more sense, while at slightly further ranges, it may behoove a player to slow down for a second to let off a small burst before evading and lining up another shot, all fired from the hip to maximize speed, but with accountability for accuracy at longer range.

It is a game, but it's always leaned slightly more tactical than arcade. As long as it's not geared towards slow trudging and constant ironsites on every weapon at every range, I think there is enough room to accommodate both styles to a degree.

With any luck, at certain ranges iron sites and hip firing will come out pretty even between their advantages and disadvantages, allowing for two different playstyles to be employed, so you can choose what you like more. Staying faster and being slightly less accurate, or being a little slower with more tunnel vision, but landing shots in tighter groupings.

It will be interesting to play with it in beta. Hopefully the devs will still be open to tweaking a lot of those things to strike that sweet spot of balance.

I like seeing a lot of variety and I like seeing balance. To me, balance doesn't just mean that nothing is overpowered, it also means that everything (or almost everything) is nearly equally as useful as anything else. This goes for vehicles, classes, weapons, equipment, abilities, etc. Echoing Captain, it really comes down to balance.

The more features this game has while still maintaining balance, the better it will be, IMO.

[IronMole]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

I did sorta say that, but people are under the assumption that ADS is more popular in gaming, im proven them wrong, with facts. thats not to say ADS isnt popular though that would be a ludicrus claim, there is over 200k people playing BF3 right now...but then there is god how many knows playing halo.

You really haven't proven much since you're under the assumption that everyone is playing those games purely because of the aiming system. Where are those FACTS?

All you have done is shown an image of the most played games on "Steam" which have been around for a few years because of the communities and gameplay - where does it show that ADS isn't the most popular?

Another thing, those who don't like iron sights clearly suck at FPS games and should stick to WoW/HelloKittyOnline.

[EVILoHOMER]

Counter Strike doesn't have them and it doesn't need them, the gameplay is perfect. Unreal Tournament, Team Fortress 2 and Quake are games that don't need them either and they still play amazing today.

Not all games have to be the same, I personally feel like they have to be in Planetside 2 just because it isn't going for fast paced action like them other games. However I wouldn't want any of them games to have them, if CS:GO has Iron sights then it fails and isn't CS to me.

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by IronMole

You really haven't proven much since you're under the assumption that everyone is playing those games purely because of the aiming system. Where are those FACTS?

All you have done is shown an image of the most played games on "Steam" which have been around for a few years because of the communities and gameplay - where does it show that ADS isn't the most popular?

Another thing, those who don't like iron sights clearly suck at FPS games and should stick to WoW/HelloKittyOnline.

Lol look at the internet hero, thinks he's tough because of the style of games he prefers.

[Marth Koopa]

Iron sights add realism, realism adds to the immersion aspect of games, immersion makes you feel like you really are doing the things you're doing.

Not having iron sights would be a terrible idea.

[Shogun]

in terms of immersion and realism i would prefer vehicle enter-animations over ironsights every day!

[DviddLeff]

Iron sights are like the stuffing in the roast chicken of FPS games; not necessary, but expected.

Vehicle entering animations are like pigs in blankets; you only get them once a year.

[acosmo]

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

Vehicle entering animations are like pigs in blankets; you only get them once a year.

but...