Shields Replacing Armor - Good or Bad Change?

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Neither is Planetside, not in any traditional sense of leveling and end game, which is the core gameplay of every mmo, ever. Planetside is simply an FPS, with lots more people than typical.

You can get pedantic and point to the technical meaning of the acronym, but it's meaning is different in terms of typical gameplay for the genre. The tag of mmo is simply something that serves marketing purpose in it's branding and saleability.

Planetside most certainly is an MMO. It is also a FPS. Leveling and end game is related to RPG, not MMO. You're just grasping for something to argue about now.

[Malorn]

In the nanite vehicles webcast they did say that EMP disables shields.

This could be quite cool to gameplay - whichever class gets an EMP grenade could potentially be extremely lethal by disabling shields and making everyone it hits vulnerable (except MAX). The EMP by itself would never be lethal, but in coordination with other class grenades you have some great combined-arms tactics possible at the infantry level.

I like how one could take frag damage depending on proximity and maybe nick the shields but getting hit by an EMP grenade nullfies completely. But if you throw the EMP first the frag could become lethal.

I like where this is going.

[Full of Fail]

I could see this working well if shields are more like recharging armor, rather than the Halo system. Instead of shields absorbing 100% of the damage you receive until they are depleted, make them become less effective as they get lower. So perhaps you could lose 20% of your shields and take no health damage, but after that, the shields could only absorb a portion of the damage, until they are depleted and your health bar takes the full damage of any further hits.

This would make a small hit do little or no damage to health, but concentrated fire would always do some permanent damage even if it doesn't kill. Shield recharge over time seems like it would work okay with this mechanic.

However they work, it'd be nice to have sidegrades to modify the shield behavior a little. An option for a higher pool of hit points and slower (or no) recharge would make them more like PS1 shields. In any case, I think something in between Battlefield and PS1 should work okay - I'd prefer they err on the side of PS1, however.

[Coreldan]

Originally Posted by Malorn

In the nanite vehicles webcast they did say that EMP disables shields.

This could be quite cool to gameplay - whichever class gets an EMP grenade could potentially be extremely lethal by disabling shields and making everyone it hits vulnerable (except MAX). The EMP by itself would never be lethal, but in coordination with other class grenades you have some great combined-arms tactics possible at the infantry level.

I like how one could take frag damage depending on proximity and maybe nick the shields but getting hit by an EMP grenade nullfies completely. But if you throw the EMP first the frag could become lethal.

I like where this is going.

This opens fairly many cool tactical gameplay scenarios. While we have flashbangs too (according to Higlo), but when I think about this in my head, I see flashbacks of the first Rainbow 6 games (not the arcade shit the franchise moved towards) where one guy opens the door, another throws in flashbang and the rest of the team storms and clears the room.

Breach, bang and clear on alpha!

That said, I guess there are also sorta negative scenarios, where we might be pushed towards every firefights starting off with some EMP nade dance.

[Duddy]

Given that we know EMP 'nades drop shields, I certainly hope that Infils have EMP grenades.

Not only does that make them more valuable in a fight, but I also appreciate how that would allow them to be more viable in 1v1 situation versus the heavier classes.

That, and it just seems to fit well.

[Coreldan]

Originally Posted by Duddy

Given that we know EMP 'nades drop shields, I certainly hope that Infils have EMP grenades.

Not only does that make them more valuable in a fight, but I also appreciate how that would allow them to be more viable in 1v1 situation versus the heavier classes.

That, and it just seems to fit well.

Infils need an EMP sidegrade to their knife, where stabbing with it causes no damage but temporarily disables the targets shield

[Hyncharas]

What worries me the most about shields replacing armour is you get into the same issue Higby spoke of during the GDC demo they were allegedly trying to avoid; a veteran player with more time spent ingame (therefore more unlocks) having superior advantage over a beginner.

If, however, shields are non-upgradeable and then armour is fixed, based on class, it would provide fair game to less experienced players, forcing those with more playtime to rely on personal skill to avoid getting killed.

[Skitrel]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Planetside most certainly is an MMO. It is also a FPS. Leveling and end game is related to RPG, not MMO. You're just grasping for something to argue about now.

At what point do you stop calling games MMO then?

By FPS standards, planetside might have a massive number of players. But by mmo standards it's small, it's even further compounded by the fact that it's actually only a few thousand per server, versus the millions of traditional mmos.

And what happens in the future, when the majority of games head the direction massive numbers of players. Do they still get called mmos or are they then defined as just average numbers of players?

MAG got called an MMO with far fewer players and a non persistent world.

The definition of mmo is not black and white, it is therefore safe to say that it's not a defined thing at all, and therefore just a marketing term, as another mentioned.

[ArmedZealot]

Originally Posted by Skitrel

At what point do you stop calling games MMO then?

By FPS standards, planetside might have a massive number of players. But by mmo standards it's small, it's even further compounded by the fact that it's actually only a few thousand per server, versus the millions of traditional mmos.

Not to be a nitpick or anything, but most traditional MMO's servers would melt with "millions". And I think only WoW could claim it had millions of players. Even EvE which has the largest per server is usually 50k-70K at peak, but I quit a few months ago so I might be wrong on that.

[Skitrel]

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

Not to be a nitpick or anything, but most traditional MMO's servers would melt with "millions". And I think only WoW could claim it had millions of players. Even EvE which has the largest per server is usually 50k-70K at peak, but I quit a few months ago so I might be wrong on that.

No you're right. I was using hyperbole.

[MrBloodworth]

I believe this option removes yet another Team play aspect, in Favor of the run and gun game play.

It completely removes reliance on team members, and cheapens game play.

In The original game, this option came with a heavy cost, it took an implant slot and drained stamina.

[Skitrel]

Anyone that's played Halo with any level of serious intention to be a good player and rank higher knows this simply isn't true. Shields force the need for team play, it forces what's called team-fire in Halo, concentrated fire from multiple people on individuals. This ensures they drop while minimising damage that comes their way, particularly if they shield over lap with rolling movement.

It doesn't discourage teamplay, it just changes it. If anything it adds new elements, everyone and their mother healed themselves in PS1 anyway, so this is just taking that and removing the repetition and tedium of the task.

[MrBloodworth]

Again, there is a distinct difference between the act of yourself, or another healing/Repairing you. Compared to you just hanging low for a moment.

In one situation, you need others to cover you, or your Medic/engi. - Teamwork.

In the other, you just need to hide behind something for a moment. - No Teamwork.

Neither has anything to do with who has what certed. That was a failing of the development team breaking the Cert system with more certs. If you did not play during the first year or two, you do not know how that system was SUPPOSED to work. It STILL has nothing to do with the differences in the actions and requirements needed between Repairing, and Shield Regeneration.

Also, Halo is the Apex of "Playing alone, together".

[Skitrel]

If you think Halo is the apex of playing alone, together you haven't played halo enough. The level of play above average is very high and very team oriented. Just because the teams are small does not make the play single player oriented. It's just that's the level of play encompassed by average and below. Call of Duty on the other hand I would completely agree with that statement, a game where teamwork plays almost zero role outside of domination, the only objective game where you could say some teamwork really does play a role. I'll put that statement down to ignorance though and just assume you're coming from a position of not playing the game beyond average, having played at level 48-50 in Halo 3 and presumably similar in Reach (though it's not disclosed) I can confidently say that a team not completely meshing together and being extremely vocal and team oriented is a dead team. The game is entirely about team fire, map control and clear concise fast paced communication.

This is besides the point however. Shields do not encompass the entirety of your health, 50/50. You still have to worry about your health, and you are 50% more vulnerable if it is reduced to near death, and thus 50% less combat effective in a crunch.

With the removal of inventory and self healing, passing it over to actual dedicated medics, it removes a lot of burden on them, stopping them from having to be heal monkeys and actually giving them the opportunity to shoot and rez instead of none stop constant heals. The mechanic is not a healing pack a la Battlefield, it is a stand and maintain tool.

[MrBloodworth]

Halo was not the crux of my point. Halo is not the only game that uses shields.

Again, there is a distinct difference between the act of yourself, or another healing/Repairing you. Compared to you just hanging low for a moment.

In one situation, you need others to cover you, or your Medic/engi. - Teamwork.

In the other, you just need to hide behind something for a moment. - No Teamwork.