Knife = One hit kill?

[Dart]

Originally Posted by Zenben

Also, to your last sentence, the term "glass cannon" does not necessarily mean something that blows shit up, though I do expect a cloaker to be able to do so with explosives. In this instance, glass cannon just refers to something that does a lot of damage but is extremely fragile.

Wow... Way to miss the point! A cannon is artillery. Artillery is not stealthy. Artillery is not precise. An assassin is NEVER a cannon. You are trying to make a cloaker something it should not be. But as you have admitted, no amount of logic will change your perception. Hopefully others will read this exchange and think "do we really want invisible 'cannons' running around the battlefield 1-hit killing anything that isn't looking for them with darklight (or whatever it's equivalent will be)?"

[Zenben]

Originally Posted by Dart

Wow... Way to miss the point! A cannon is artillery. Artillery is not stealthy. Artillery is not precise. An assassin is NEVER a cannon. You are trying to make a cloaker something it should not be. But as you have admitted, no amount of logic will change your perception. Hopefully others will read this exchange and think "do we really want invisible 'cannons' running around the battlefield 1-hit killing anything that isn't looking for them with darklight (or whatever it's equivalent will be)?"

Clearly the term glass cannon is not a phrase you have encountered before. As I said, it does not literally mean a piece of artillery, it's a figure of speech. Who the fuck would make a cannon out of glass? By the way, are you aware they've made infiltrators into snipers in PS2? One might think of a sniper as a type of artillery, how do you feel about that?

[Mastachief]

Theres another free to play fps on the market that can serve to further hammer home the NO to one hit kill knives........


Team fortress 2


go watch the spy back stabs, now imagine instead of 2 or 3 spys there are literally 100's of them all going "LOLZ look at me imma invisible 1 shot killing machine"

The situation awareness crap is just that crap, you can be one of the best fps players in the world regarding situational awareness and you would still die to this faggotry. This is an MMO the variables to track are infinitely more numerous than your average FPSflavour52.

I can only assume these VETs advocating these concepts are the same losers we were fighting last night who despite outnumbering us 10 to 1 still couldn't take a biolab even sending a 20 man MAX crash and numerous gal drops.

Cloakers (now infiltrators) should be weak oh so very weak and not one man killing machines. You have a cloak and can run fast it would be really easy to backstab 5 people before you die. You already have the sniper rifle now shutup and be happy stop try to unbalance what will already be a balance nightmare with your lame mechanics that have no place in the planetside world.

[Zenben]

Originally Posted by Mastachief

Theres another free to play fps on the market that can serve to further hammer home the NO to one hit kill knives........


Team fortress 2


go watch the spy back stabs, now imagine instead of 2 or 3 spys there are literally 100's of them all going "LOLZ look at me imma invisible 1 shot killing machine"

The situation awareness crap is just that crap, you can be one of the best fps players in the world regarding situational awareness and you would still die to this faggotry. This is an MMO the variables to track are infinitely more numerous than your average FPSflavour52.

I can only assume these VETs advocating these concepts are the same losers we were fighting last night who despite outnumbering us 10 to 1 still couldn't take a biolab even sending a 20 man MAX crash and numerous gal drops.

Cloakers (now infiltrators) should be weak oh so very weak and not one man killing machines. You have a cloak and can run fast it would be really easy to backstab 5 people before you die. You already have the sniper rifle now shutup and be happy stop try to unbalance what will already be a balance nightmare with your lame mechanics that have no place in the planetside world.

At least the other guy was able to debate reasonably without sounding like a douche. As soon as I see something like "faggotry" you lose me, so I guess you win. Grats?

[Mastachief]

Originally Posted by Zenben

At least the other guy was able to debate reasonably without sounding like a douche. As soon as I see something like "faggotry" you lose me, so I guess you win. Grats?

I accept your lack of considered response as realisation of the stupidity of you posts.

Thanks

By the way my level douchery is proportionate to the stupidity of the threads I respond to.

[Zenben]

Originally Posted by Mastachief

I accept your lack of considered response as realisation of the stupidity of you posts.

Thanks

By the way my level douchery is proportionate to the stupidity of the threads I respond to.

So because my opinion is different from yours, it's stupid? Got it, you're definitely worth talking to OH LOOK an ignore button!

[Dart]

Originally Posted by Zenben

Clearly the term glass cannon is not a phrase you have encountered before. As I said, it does not literally mean a piece of artillery, it's a figure of speech. Who the fuck would make a cannon out of glass? By the way, are you aware they've made infiltrators into snipers in PS2? One might think of a sniper as a type of artillery, how do you feel about that?

The issue is not my understanding of the term "glass cannon" Zenben, but your use of it. As it happens I am perfectly familiar with the term and I use it (correctly) when it is appropriate. My point, which you apparently missed, is that the term itself - which is intended to imply a particularly powerful, fragile weapon - is an inappropriate description for a cloaker. Cloaking is about stealth, subtlety and subterfuge. As I have said, there is very little stealthy about running up to a group of players waiting to pull vehicles and hacking them all to death with a 1 hit kill weapon.

Moreover your figure of speech, in my opinion, belies your misconception of this issue. That is why I drew your attention to it. Your interpretation of the class is, in my opinion, wholly unsuitable and you would do well to ask a REAL cloaker - someone like Figgy or Malign about the nuances of the class because I assure you, it is not about killing OR cannons (glass or otherwise).

Regarding Snipers - I am glad they are part of the Infiltrator class - and if an Infil is keen to kill people, I would imagine that is the best route for them to go.

[Zenben]

Originally Posted by Dart

The issue is not my understanding of the term "glass cannon" Zenben, but your use of it. As it happens I am perfectly familiar with the term and I use it (correctly) when it is appropriate. My point, which you apparently missed, is that the term itself - which is intended to imply a particularly powerful, fragile weapon - is an inappropriate description for a cloaker. Cloaking is about stealth, subtlety and subterfuge. As I have said, there is very little stealthy about running up to a group of players waiting to pull vehicles and hacking them all to death with a 1 hit kill weapon.

Moreover your figure of speech, in my opinion, belies your misconception of this issue. That is why I drew your attention to it. Your interpretation of the class is, in my opinion, wholly unsuitable and you would do well to ask a REAL cloaker - someone like Figgy or Malign about the nuances of the class because I assure you, it is not about killing OR cannons (glass or otherwise).

Regarding Snipers - I am glad they are part of the Infiltrator class - and if an Infil is keen to kill people, I would imagine that is the best route for them to go.

Admittedly, I'm not a very experienced cloaker. Maybe I'm just too hung up on the idea of a badass ninja type bringing a knife to a gun fight. I suppose as long as explosives are still an option, I'll be content with a weaker knife, though I will always oppose a quick knife.

[Dart]

Originally Posted by Zenben

I will always oppose a quick knife.

Something we firmly agree on.

And cloakers using explosives is cool too (so long as they are primarily tactical, rather than intended for killing).

My point here is simple - why is a knife attack which does say 70% damage by a class which is NOT designed for killing insufficient? Or put another way, why should a support/tactical class (ie. non-combat specific class) have the most powerful weapon in the game? I'd compare the 1 knife hit kill Cloakers to a Medic asking for a 1 hit kill med app or the Engy asking for a 1 hit kill wrench! It simply doesn't make sense...

If you want to be rambo, go Heavy Assault or MAX. If you want to heal people, go Medic. If you want to surgically kill things, go Sniper. If you want to be tactically sneaky (delivering a sting occasionally in the process of completing a mission) that is what cloaking is for. We don't want to see Cloakers running around spec'd for "max damage" thinking they're playing COD! The more individual we keep the classes - ie. the less homogenization among them - the more playstyles we will encourage and the more enjoyment will be had by all! In an MMO diversity is always a good thing.

[Zenben]

Originally Posted by Dart

If you want to be rambo, go Heavy Assault or MAX. If you want to heal people, go Medic. If you want to surgically kill things, go Sniper. If you want to be tactically sneaky (delivering a sting occasionally in the process of completing a mission) that is what cloaking is for.

And if you want to hack a Gal (AMS) or strategically placed Sunderer (presumably Lodestar), play a clo... oh wait, no hacking vehicles Seems like cloakers were robbed of something that was so much fun when they announced the removal of vehicle hacking.

[Dart]

Originally Posted by Zenben

And if you want to hack a Gal (AMS) or strategically placed Sunderer (presumably Lodestar), play a clo... oh wait, no hacking vehicles Seems like cloakers were robbed of something that was so much fun when they announced the removal of vehicle hacking.

Again, I agree with that and during beta I certainly hope we will discover more roles for a Cloaker to perform... And if we don't I hope there is a lot of community pressure for the Devs to introduce some. Some of the most impressive Cloakers I ever saw could infiltrate a base, on their own, and flip the hack without killing a single person. From the stream at E3, that would not seem possible any longer (although obviously I'm hoping there is a lot more we don't know, so I'm not jumping to any conclusions).

Btw I added a little to my previous post - have a read of it. Hopefully it'll better illustrate my feelings on class diversity.

[Sledgecrushr]

The issue I have with the knife is that I dont think it should do diddly squat against anyone with any kind of armor no matter how specced you are. Just look at the HA and tell me youre going to do serious damage to that guy with a knife. This whole conversation is taking the knife into fantasyland. You just cant get the leverage to push the knife through shields and advanced plate armor.

[Monkey]

Just no... I hate the whole sprinting and instant knife kill thing in CoD, so lame. Just have the knife as equipable, but make it faster to draw out than PS1, it took an age in that game...

[Dart]

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

The issue I have with the knife is that I dont think it should do diddly squat against anyone with any kind of armor no matter how specced you are. Just look at the HA and tell me youre going to do serious damage to that guy with a knife. This whole conversation is taking the knife into fantasyland. You just cant get the leverage to push the knife through shields and advanced plate armor.

Realism... Computer games... Realism... Computer games... Realism... Computer games....

Nope, sorry. I just don't see the connection here. Remember you're playing a game where when you die, you don't. You run around carrying all sorts of weapons you can't see on your body and you can create vehicles/equipment out of thin air. Please suspend your disbelief at the door!

[PredatorFour]

I loved the knife in PS i got upto titanium with my infil. Id like to see the knife dynamics remain the same on a whole. However id like to be able to spec more into my knife so it could make it a one hit kill. Before some of you elitests fall off your high horse and try and slag me off for saying that here`s some points.

- In a game where we already have OSK (headshots) it aint that bad
- If i certed a knife buff it would sacrifice other areas as we all know
- The overall pops are larger than PS so could be more difficult to sneak around a populated base /Darklight
-TTK is considerably faster in PS 2, if you see me i`ll be dead in milliseconds.
- The new PS is only planetside in name, you cant compare your PS 1 experiences with the new game as it is nearly a different game altogether.

So basically im in favour of keeping knife the same as it was in PS 1 for everyone. But you can spec up to be a badass with the knife and slaughter people with bigger guns/armour than you.