Higby on Air/AA balance.. Is it the fast track to Airside?

[RobUK]

Originally Posted by AThreatToYou

Going out alone with one burster, one hawk or one skyguard isn't going to net you much kills.

Why is it then that if I get in a Mosquito I can easily achieve far more kills?

Sometimes the one eyed view that gamers develop over their favourite toy is so infuriating,

By all means, make an argument as to why ESF's should remain so omnipotent. But for goodness sake, this "use teamwork to kill my solo aircraft because this game is about combined arms" mantra is eye-poppinly maddening.

It is a fact of this games current balance that the ESF requires no teamwork in order to get kills with.

[Dragonskin]

Originally Posted by RobUK

This game is kill-centric. It's what gets you the only game generated currency that will help a player to progress. When a player buys a weapon, he or she unsurprisingly expects to be able to kill with it. If AA is not primarily a tool for getting kills with, then that needs to be made crystal clear via the description at the point of purchase.

AA is a waste of certs and a waste of real money if kills is what you're after.

So you are really just upset that this isn't pay to win? All that AA talk and that is what it boils down to? interesting.

[Dragonskin]

Originally Posted by Figment

Are solo MBTs a bad thing? YES.

Here is more proof why you shouldn't use top level gamers as justification for arguements.


Clearly solo MBTs are completely OP with 1 person in it... look at all the people he kills. OMG how is that balanced?.....

[blighte]

Originally Posted by Snipefrag

Exactly, the people in this thread are thinking about things in a 1vs1 situation. Which in a MMOFPS like PS2 is exactly they way to screw balance up.

right so what your trying to say is that it should take 3-4 ESFs to work together to take out a tank/liberator/galaxy because teamwork is what balances games

[Rahabib]

the issue, again is, if you are going to make one vehicle better than another (the 1:1 idea) then those vehicles need to be more rare, either with longer cool downs or more resources. If not, then the 1:1 rule should be in effect - ie 1 player can take down 1 player or else everyone is just going to eventually either play all air or just quit playing.

[RobUK]

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

So you are really just upset that this isn't pay to win? All that AA talk and that is what it boils down to? interesting.

What does pay to win have to do with it?

You're making no sense

[AThreatToYou]

Originally Posted by Figment

You're also using double standards. Great that you can kill air with support from a buddy. But air still kills solo with ease. Why don't you expect aircav to have wingmen or ground support against AA?

Because you do expect ground units to bring AA support against air and in principle you do expect multiple Lightnings to be required to kill MBTs (for instance).



My question is, why are air units treated so differently from other units as if they're a form of entitled royalty?

I suppose I can see a double-standard there, but it takes more than 1 MAX or 1 HA to take out a Lightning. It does not, however, take more than one MBT, ESF, or Liberator to gut a Lightning, not to say that a Lightning is completely defenseless against any of these things, because a Lightning isn't.

9/10 of my deaths in a Lightning are due to being surrounded, the other 1/10 is due to backing into enemies while trying to retreat and be repaired. Most of the time, in a Lightning, one can skit behind a hill or rock just as fast as an ESF can skit behind a taller mountain, but I do recognize that there is a big difference in what these two things do. The ESF will be much farther away and will have a harder time parking there to repair; it will just take them longer. That's not important though, just something to think about.

I'm not too sure why ESF are being treated differently, because it seems to me that they are not. One HA is little more than a "deterrent" against a MBT, Lightning, ESF or Lib... same for one MAX, really (I admit, I am throwing player skill to the side here, but you can agree right?). Yet, they have to be treated differently because they are different vehicles, meant for solo play. If you're to argue they shouldn't be for solo play, I might agree. PlanetSide is a team game and the ESF seem to be a little odd; running solo in an ESF should be similar to running solo in a Lightning tank, and right now, it seems to be but they are too effective against too many targets at once. I don't know what to do about that.

[Rahabib]

Originally Posted by AThreatToYou

...I'm not too sure why ESF are being treated differently, because it seems to me that they are not. ...

They aren't. Vehicles are the same principle - either make them so that an infantry or at least a max take down a tank or make them cost more/longer cool down.

[RobUK]

Originally Posted by AThreatToYou

I'm not too sure why ESF are being treated differently

Because they are different. They are different to any other vehciles because they have killing power and huge flexibility. An ESF can engage any target in the game on its own terms. In the air, or on the ground. It can rapidly retreat and return fully repaired and rearmed.

An ESF doesn't have to worry about terrain or plotting anything other than a straight course anywhere.

You're not doing any of those things in any other vehicle in the game. Especially not a great big fat slow moving tank.

An ESF is incredibly flexible, is durable, and very powerful against a wide range of targets.

It's also huge fun to play in

But that doesn't really make it fair.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

Umm.. not going to worry about the rest of your post.. I suppose you actually know who Levelcap is if you are using him for a reference.. but here.. just incase.

He IS a one man army by himself. So yes, please use top level gamers as justification for all your future battles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0ZmA...UiW_V4dwHxY0Mg

To add... in this video we can come to the conclusion that Heavy Assault is OP. He takes out tanks solo and all kinds of infantry.

Wait wait wait, back up there son, you think knife kills are hard and soloing a tank with HA is impossible? >.>

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

Here is more proof why you shouldn't use top level gamers as justification for arguements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWvsJnMSgHE&feature=g-user

Clearly solo MBTs are completely OP with 1 person in it... look at all the people he kills. OMG how is that balanced?.....

And uhm, soloing with MBTs is exceptionally easy to rack in kills with, despite being pretty damn boring. It's one of the things that has annoyed many of us.

Levelcap is pretty much on par with some of the people I play with on a daily basis. Know Dachlatte? Tanking in PS2 is easy if you want to farm kills.


But hey Dragon, thanks for showing how easy it is to farm with OP equipment, because Levelcap isn't using exceptional skill there, just consistently applying common sense basic principles - particularly for a Magrider, that's easy.

[RobUK]

Originally Posted by Figment

Wait wait wait, back up there son, you think knife kills are hard and soloing a tank with HA is impossible? >.>

I was just thinking the same thing.

I have killed loads of tanks by myself in this game. I never managed it in PS1 unless using mines or a Reaver, but in this game it is more than possible.

[boogy]

I just wanted to add to this post that I think Higby was misquoted. He said, something along the lines of - "right now the only thing that can counter Liberators are air, and we need to fix that." Again not a direct quote, but he did aknowledge that air should not be only countered by air.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by AThreatToYou

I suppose I can see a double-standard there, but it takes more than 1 MAX or 1 HA to take out a Lightning.

Ehr, more than one MAX yes, because the AV MAXes are crap. But one LA can easily take out a Lightning. You never used dual C4 and a flanking maneuvre to place two on the rear? >__>

That even works on MBTs and Sunderers...

Originally Posted by AThreatToYou

I'm not too sure why ESF are being treated differently, because it seems to me that they are not. One HA is little more than a "deterrent" against a MBT, Lightning, ESF or Lib... same for one MAX, really (I admit, I am throwing player skill to the side here, but you can agree right?). Yet, they have to be treated differently because they are different vehicles, meant for solo play. If you're to argue they shouldn't be for solo play, I might agree. PlanetSide is a team game and the ESF seem to be a little odd; running solo in an ESF should be similar to running solo in a Lightning tank, and right now, it seems to be but they are too effective against too many targets at once. I don't know what to do about that.

Well when I first saw the Reaver - when I thought the Mossie was still going to be the basic common pool airchav - I thought they designed it to be a two crew unit (finally). :/ Unfortunately they have this weird policy that everything must be multicrew and multi-buddy teamwork to be balanced (aside from ATVs, okay), ASIDE from the three most powerful and/or versatile units in game:

Lightning (most versatile ground unit with heavy firepower against infantry and previously, against any air), MBT (most powerful and highly versatile ground unit) and ES Aircav (most flexible, versatile, agile and speediest units of all with the firepower that rivals a heavy tank against ANYTHING).

It's kinda mindboggling and makes no sense in the remainder of the game's vision. Solo units should be more like the ATV than the Liberator in firepower and endurance. But apparently, Smedley doesn't think that is fun. MBTs should be like Libs, but also in terms of manpower use (two or three crew minimum to fire guns). Aircav should be easy to take out if they have high firepower, like Fury's were in PS1. Though I'd rather see dive bomber type A2G units be like buggies in PS1. Fast and nimble, but light to medium armoured with a two crew requirement.

That just makes a lot more sense. Hell, the Lightning (with a bit more armour) as a two crew and MBT (with a bit more armour) as a three crew unit makes more sense than they do as solo vehicles, though if the Lightning had lighter guns, I could still see it as a solo unit that traded some firepower for speed and mediocre endurance.

[Ghoest9]

It should be nearly impossible for fighter craft to kill infantry baring a suicide crash.

That would fix everything.

Lib kill ground forces. Fighters kill everything that flys.

[Graphic J]

I find no problem with Air being the Air killer. AA is basically a deterrent in almost any other Dog-fighting game I've played, why not PS2.