Tunnels wont really fix anything - Page 6

PredatorFour · 2013-01-15, 06:05 AM

Maybe tunnels wont fix problems in the short term but i am hopeful that in the long term things like spawns will be UNDERGROUND too. I hope they take this direction now they can do it !

Baneblade · 2013-01-15, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by Rothnang

Locking vehicles out of the fight shouldn't be the goal, since that doesn't in any way increase how easy it is to defend something, it's just a cheap way around actually balancing combined arms warfare.

It worked fine in PS1. Vehicles have their role. Infantry need to have theirs. It's all part of combined arms. Being able to sit in your tank and farm a base cap in progress is not combined arms warfare.

Figment · 2013-01-15, 07:03 AM

Combined arms camping is not combined arms. It's just OP camping.

The role of vehicles is to push and gain ground. The role of infantry is to consolidate that. If you let vehicles consolidate terrain through camping, then infantry have no clear role beyond repairing the vehicles they hop back into.

Beerbeer · 2013-01-15, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

Combined arms camping is not combined arms. It's just OP camping.

The role of vehicles is to push and gain ground. The role of infantry is to consolidate that. If you let vehicles consolidate terrain through camping, then infantry have no clear role beyond repairing the vehicles they hop back into.

Exactly. This is a vehicle game; infantry is just pure fodder.

Rothnang · 2013-01-15, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Baneblade

It worked fine in PS1. Vehicles have their role. Infantry need to have theirs. It's all part of combined arms. Being able to sit in your tank and farm a base cap in progress is not combined arms warfare.

Forcing everyone out of their vehicles if they want to participate in a base cap isn't either though.

Rockit · 2013-01-15, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by Rothnang

Forcing everyone out of their vehicles if they want to participate in a base cap isn't either though.

But you don't have to and still participate. Had a good fight at Peris one time where the infantry fight dragged on and several of us in armor patrolled around outside base and sure enough NC sent armor in from the East. We had a good fight with them to keep them out of the infoor fight and had air above doing the same thing. Eventually we (VS) took the base back from NC. It was picturebook of how fights should progress in this game. Funny how I still recall it to this day from early beta.

Figment · 2013-01-15, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Rothnang

Forcing everyone out of their vehicles if they want to participate in a base cap isn't either though.

Actually it is and you're wrongfully applying combined arms by making the rather ludicrous assumption it's not a combined arms GAME if you don't directly engage in every fight with EVERY type of unit.

A game is combined arms when all types of units are present in the game and have their purpose in this game regarding roles. That doesn't mean that every single combat engagement has to have every type of unit, or every stage of combat sees the same units in action. One does not continue shelling or worse, firing artillery into the thick of a hand to hand battle either. That doesn't mean that by the times the artillery grows silent, it had not taken part in the battle!

One does not fly a bomber inside a bunker. One does not drive artillery on the front line. That doesn't mean they don't have their own roles within the entire combined arms game.

You should frame combined arms within the context of the entire game, rather than look at every single engagement independently from the rest. Those stages in engagement are not possible without the creation of that situation by other unit types.

The entire engagement with all the stages of combat together is where combined arms has a persistent presence, but not every particular role is continuous.

That's not that hard to understand, is it?

Vehicles can still be used as a tool of suppression and courtyard control and defense against external threats and frustrate enemy logistics and reinforcements, while the local friendly infantry take on the local enemy infantry.

MrBloodworth · 2013-01-15, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Rothnang

Forcing everyone out of their vehicles if they want to participate in a base cap isn't either though.

The HORROR!

You may have to get out of your tank, IF you want to directly participate in the next stage of a base capture. OH NOZ!

Or, you can stay in your tank. No one is forcing anything. Whoever told you that you alone would be able to participate in every action, at any time and at every stage, with any equipment, lied to you. Its just not how it works.

This is not COD. COD seems to be where this mentality comes from. The idea that no mater what you do or what choice you make, you will never be wrong or ill equipped.

Figment · 2013-01-15, 12:25 PM

Just a small illustration, Rothang:

You say "but vehicles aren't fighting infantry indoors, so it's not combined arms!".

I submit to you that shotgun wielding medics are not taking down aircraft at flight ceiling as infantry. In fact, I can pretty much guarantee you ATVs and Sunderers aren't doing that either.

Baneblade · 2013-01-15, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Rothnang

Forcing everyone out of their vehicles if they want to participate in a base cap isn't either though.

Even though everyone else managed to get this particular grenade down your throat, I still want to say that you have no idea what combined arms means.

StumpyTheOzzie · 2013-01-15, 04:09 PM

wow. He got Told.

Once again though, a teaser from the devs has been over-analysed and theorycrafted into oblivion without anyone being able to see what the actual tunnel looks like and therefore what effects it will have.

Patience. Wait and see is the order of the day.

I wonder if they are going to be dark?

OCNSethy · 2013-01-15, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

wow. He got Told.

Once again though, a teaser from the devs has been over-analysed and theorycrafted into oblivion without anyone being able to see what the actual tunnel looks like and therefore what effects it will have.

Patience. Wait and see is the order of the day.

I wonder if they are going to be dark?

I hope not... the dark scares me

But you are correct, lets see what it looks like before we pull it apart.

Cyridius · 2013-01-16, 12:02 AM

Guys the sooner we all accept that PS2 is the testing ground for Forgelight, the less pissed you'll probably end up being when you realise the Engine's limitations and that it'll be improved over time.

Wahooo · 2013-01-16, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Cyridius

Guys the sooner we all accept that PS2 is the testing ground for Forgelight, the less pissed you'll probably end up being when you realise the Engine's limitations and that it'll be improved over time.

Why would this make us LESS pissed? I would be fine if the Beta lasted over a year with them saying "This is a testing ground for pushing the limits and finding out what Forgelight can and cannot do".

Instead they released a game prematurely and are still experimenting and testing things the ENGINE can do which means real fixes to design issues are HOW FAR AWAY?

Accepting this makes me MORE pissed to be honest.

Climhazzard · 2013-01-16, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Natir

What else can their magical engine not do?

Cure cancer.