MeanWhile Free 2 Play are struggling, PAY 2 WIN Players are doing this with resources - Page 6

LayZ · 2013-07-10, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Dreamcast

League of Legends

League of Legends

*gobble slurp*

League of Legends

LEAGUE OF LEGENDS

Why don't you stop whining about PS2, a completely different game than LoL, and just go play LoL.

Phreec · 2013-07-10, 04:31 PM

Sub/boosters "unlimited" resources aren't just convenience since they actually affect gameplay and artificially limit the performance of F2P players. People getting certs etc faster or cosmetics is fine however paying players getting what's basically unlimited C4 is borderline P2W.
It's not as obvious or blatant as some games are, but you can't deny it leaves you at a severe disadvantage unless you pay. Sometimes I can't effectively hold back enemy MAX's or defend bases by destroying enemy Sunderers since my C4 supply is constantly low...

I love this game but I can't defend this aspect of it. The F2P model started out fine, but it's gradually getting worse.

Dragonskin · 2013-07-10, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Phreec

Sub/boosters "unlimited" resources aren't just convenience since they actually affect gameplay and artificially limit the performance of F2P players. People getting certs etc faster or cosmetics is fine however paying players getting what's basically unlimited C4 is borderline P2W.
It's not as obvious or blatant as some games are, but you can't deny it leaves you at a severe disadvantage unless you pay. Sometimes I can't effectively hold back enemy MAX's or defend bases by destroying enemy Sunderers since my C4 supply is constantly low...

I love this game but I can't defend this aspect of it. The F2P model started out fine, but it's gradually getting worse.

You can't single handedly kill maxes and sunderers because your resources are low? That must be terrible since there would be absolutely no chance of friendly help ever resolving those issues.. oh wait... it's a multiple player game in a persistent world meaning people log in and out at will while the game plays on. Also those friendlies all have access to explosives regardless of their resource count. Underbarrel grenade launchers don't take resources. AV mana turrets don't take resources. Then most importantly rocket launchers don't take resources. Primary and secondary weapons don't take resources. How will you ever kill enemy max or sunderer without C4?

You aren't going to win a P2W argument trying to build 1v1 scenarios in a game where true 1v1's rarely ever happen...not saying you did exactly, but your comment is pretty close. The fact is that the game has so many variables that resources aren't a huge factor. All base captures come down to infantry. Infantry don't require resources to spawn. They only require resources to use select items that may or may not help the situation. Just because you put C4 out doesn't mean you get to detonate it before someone kills you.

Ghoest9 · 2013-07-10, 05:22 PM

I thiink you guys ate missing the mot basic argument against the OP.

Its not P2W because AP spam is not the best way earn certs(nor the best way to cap a base.)

It is '"pay for more options in fun play styles."

Also as a correction you can spam AP a long time if you are in the right hex for inf resources but you cant do it forever.

Phreec · 2013-07-10, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

You can't single handedly kill maxes and sunderers because your resources are low? That must be terrible since there would be absolutely no chance of friendly help ever resolving those issues.. oh wait... it's a multiple player game in a persistent world meaning people log in and out at will while the game plays on. Also those friendlies all have access to explosives regardless of their resource count. Underbarrel grenade launchers don't take resources. AV mana turrets don't take resources. Then most importantly rocket launchers don't take resources. Primary and secondary weapons don't take resources. How will you ever kill enemy max or sunderer without C4?

You aren't going to win a P2W argument trying to build 1v1 scenarios in a game where true 1v1's rarely ever happen...not saying you did exactly, but your comment is pretty close. The fact is that the game has so many variables that resources aren't a huge factor. All base captures come down to infantry. Infantry don't require resources to spawn. They only require resources to use select items that may or may not help the situation. Just because you put C4 out doesn't mean you get to detonate it before someone kills you.

Yeah all right I'll just start UBGL'ing Sunderers or wait for others to do it for me. If I was a sub I could easily do it myself. Totally not buying power. :|

Like I said, it limits your effectiveness. Are you supposed to pay to stay competitive? I've seen the same foul business model before, you're lured in with a seemingly fair chance as F2P and the higher and more invested you get the harder it gets to stay effective without paying. That's exactly how PS2 is evolving and that's P2W in my books.

maradine · 2013-07-10, 05:37 PM

Would you rather just pay a flat 15 bucks a month?

Calista · 2013-07-10, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by maradine

Would you rather just pay a flat 15 bucks a month?

For the game as it is now? NO. But a fully fleshed out version? Hell yes!

Chaff · 2013-07-10, 06:00 PM

.

STOP TROLLING.
I got a free car from the Homeless Shelter, but there's all these rich sons a bitches in La Jolla buying Jaguars and Mercedes who have nicer cars than me. They drive their better cars more because they can afford to buy more gas than me. I have to wait and convert Food Stamps into gas vouchers. It's an unfair PTLB (Pay-To-Live-Better) World. oh booohooohoohooohoooo.

PS2 game is F2P. There is No "Win" in a persistent World. What these entitlement Trolls want is EVERYTHING FOR NOTHING. LOL is perfectly fair. I'm not trolling. I'm just simply a closed-minded entitlement cry baby.

Guess what, some of the people at SOE get PAID. They build & work in and around games for a living. There HAS TO BE A REVENUE STREAM in order for the game to be created & sustain itself. It's not "free" to make video games. Why expect to play any for free ? What is wrong with y'all ?

You can call PS2 any of the following;
P2LP (pay to "look" pretty) .... PFC (Pay For Convenience). Getting a gun or resources sooner is NOT a "win" of any kind. It is nothing more than having the opportunity to use resources (C4 ?) a little quicker than the F2P crowd.

I NEVER know, nor have I EVER paused to wonder ..... was THAT a F2P AP mine, or was it a guy with a Sub ? Perhaps, you should try calling PS2 ....
PFTOTKWERALQTF (Pay For The Opportunity To Kill With Expensive Resources A Little Quicker Than Freeloaders).
.

Climhazzard · 2013-07-10, 06:04 PM

How has no one pointed out that the video in the OP was also shot during a Double XP holiday?

Chaff · 2013-07-10, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by maradine

Would you rather just pay a flat 15 bucks a month?

I'll pay $15 a month when PS2 becomes better than LEAGUE OF LEGENDS !

Falcon_br · 2013-07-10, 06:16 PM

You are wrong, the resource change did affected p2w members!
Now I can no longer pull prowlers to all my squad, I can just pull two of then if I synchronize the acquisition time with the resource tick time.
Even using maxes I don´t recall the last time I was not with all my mines/c4/med kit/etc on maximum.

NewSith · 2013-07-10, 06:18 PM

I disagree. I would want to make a constructive, reply, but I only wanted to note that my platinum membership vs f2p didn't really prove to be much different.

Afterall, I'm with Assist here. Sarcastic or not, Pay2Win and Pay2Benefit are two different things. Resources don't play much role in "how" you play. The situation the guy shows is veeeery occasional. It's like saying that Liberator is OP based on a video where it Zephyrs a platoon consisting solely of engineers, trying to footzerg an outpost.

Wahooo · 2013-07-10, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by Phreec

Like I said, it limits your effectiveness. Are you supposed to pay to stay competitive? I've seen the same foul business model before, you're lured in with a seemingly fair chance as F2P and the higher and more invested you get the harder it gets to stay effective without paying. That's exactly how PS2 is evolving and that's P2W in my books.

This is only true if you have a one dimensional play style. As was pointed out, even if you get the 50% bonus, that is 3 ticks to a f2p's 2, if you only play a one dimensional game, all air or all tanks, or all max or rely on consumables, the you will run low a lot.

It may force you to change a play style for a bit. But so do vehicle/max timers, and the resource system in general. It is only a hit to your effectiveness if you are a one dimensional player.

Maybe a little unfair, A LITTLE, unfair but screaming P2W over this is so f-ing trivial. Just saying P2W, to ME means buying a direct advantage right away. Something that is 100% a change that you just can't get as a f2P player. The number of games out there that fall into that category is huge.
The number of games that are not in anyway, shape or form pay for a little advantage? NONE. Even LOL, having more champions at your disposal is an advantage, not huge, but quicker XP and champions you like.

Its just that any F2P game needs to give the paying customers SOMETHING right? Anytime that something affects the game in the slightest way someone is going to cry P2W. Well there are degrees to it. And from my standpoint PS2's is on the very low, scale and very acceptable level.

maradine · 2013-07-10, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Chaff

I'll pay $15 a month when PS2 becomes better than LEAGUE OF LEGENDS !

Then this is a pretty interesting perspective on how you value your time, no?

Dreamcast · 2013-07-10, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by Obstruction

it must really burn your ass that i keep a Lib for 2-3 hours while my Air resources sit capped, and i basically never buy anything with infantry resources because other than keeping a dozen medkits and C4 i can't really be bothered to spend it.

and you know, your ridiculous hypothesis about equal players NEVER plays out that way.

in LoL you have 5 v 5 with a match to win and certain milestones to meet along the way, each player trying to reach certain points in their build before minute 15 or whatever. in that game the gold per second is finite if everyone is farming equally, so getting more per second really counts towards meeting those milestones. i understand what you are saying there. if one whole team gets more per second and the other team doesn't, they will meet milestones faster and dominate the lanes, deny even more possible gold, and win every conflict.

in planetside it is never like that. it never ends, there is no win, no milestones, only personal achievement, and personal downtime.

there is no mythical 1 v 1 continent where that paying member beats you and ruins your life because of your RL poverty.

and here i am going to admit that i, of all these people, actually come closest to seeing that play out. i am a full time pilot in a dedicated Lib crew, and we have rival Lib crews and ESF wings that come for us because of our rep. we fight them all day long and sometimes we run dry of my resources and then run out my partner's resources or timers.

so then we go drive a harasser for a while, or go to ground and play support infantry until we can go back to what we like.

that's basically it.

there's no one ruining our time because they have something we don't. there's no match loss where we never had a chance because they got more per minute than we did.

every time we go up and face our rivals, we have a good time, and we give them a good fight. and sometimes they get us, for any number of reasons. but resources are never one of those reasons.

Their is "winning" in this game.

Sure the game never tells u "U Won"....but winning is measured by Success/Kills.

Something that Resources give you way better odds of.

The Equal theory I mentioned is to show you how it is in game power...If players are equal to each other, with equal gear...Guess what the one with the most resources can use the most tanks/planes....Which in turn effects a battles outcome.

Sorry but that is "winning" in the game....Their is absolutely 0 negatives about having more resources.

This is different then certs because you can have different sidegrade guns but you are still sacrificing something since is a sidegrade...at best Certs give u slight upgrades...and of course options that needs in game resources to use (C4,mines,etc)..Not really buying power IMO, that is true convenience.

Just because their isn't an End game doesn't mean their isn't winning in this game.

BTW If resources didn't matter than why isn't winning a continent 50% off infantry,air,vehicle resources?.....Because SOE will no that is way to OP for any Empire who has that.