Has there been news of a buff for NC MAX? - Page 6

MGP · 2013-11-18, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by War Barney

<facepalm> so you are saying that in terms of effectiveness the NC MAX is worse and the TR one better

No, i'm saying what measuring effectiveness by shooting stationary targets in VR is dumb idea.
Anyway, like I've said before, this discussion is pointless, NC can cry all day long, but their MAX won't be buffed, not before TR MAX at least. This is what we've been told.

Also, take my personal advice and try playing more then one faction.

War Barney · 2013-11-18, 05:21 AM

So you think shotguns with a limited ammo supply and slow shooting would do better against moving targets at longer ranges?

As for playing other factions I've played about as much of VS and TR as you have NC I just don't feel the need to add it to my sig as its a minor thing I do now and then and don't have a outfit. You can hardly try to tell people to play other factions when you've got such little time on NC.

Falcon_br · 2013-11-18, 12:30 PM

I think this must be a troll topic, no, really?
NC maxes got shields, so they can survive at long range and close the gap.
TR maxes got lockdown, that NOBODY uses it! NOBODY!
Before the buster nerf we had the best anti air combination ever, now,, lockdown maxes are maybe worst then no lockdown maxes firing buster, because of the ridiculous amount of spread you got with recoil.
Maxes on open ground? Are you serius? Since the Phoenix are in the game, the only one using maxes on open ground are the NC, all other maxes get Phoenix to the face as soon as you are spotted to enemy NC units!
So, nobody cause maxes on open ground, because of the Phoenix, and the NC won't use it because of it uses shotgun.
All bases we attck we see Zoe maxes attacking from up the base with pop up attacks, they kill several tanks without retaliation.
We can try to do that with fracture, but we are not even close to the damage and sped a Zoe max have doing that.
In close combat we lose to the VS because of Zoe and to the NC because of shotguns.
TR maxes are by a far margin the worst max in the game, people complain about the fracture, but maradine data is true, all other max anti vehicle weapon have better KPU the us, and are more effective against infantry, just because we had the worst AV MAX weapon, the pounder! and now we have a av weapon we can kill something with it, people complain about it!
It is like the Vulcan, we use it because we love it, but all data is sure that all other harasser weapon are better because they can damage the enemy at all ranges, while we must be on melee range to get a fast kill, something the other two empire specific harasser weapon can also do almost as good as the Vulcan.
Is life facing a vanguard at melee range, we can have Vulcan with extended mags, Ap cannon, deploy with the last level, a vanguard will kill you with a standart cannon and a enforcer just because of it OP shield that also saves him from mines and C4!
TR as a faction can really use a buff to several weapons and habilities or maybe make the other empires habilities less effective, I am tired to see magriders firing from the top of montains unaccessible to everything else!

almalino · 2013-11-18, 12:36 PM

I play NC only. I checked stat and poor TR max. In comparison NC max is way better

Though I still hate VS max abilities. VS MAX is OP. Trollface.

KesTro · 2013-11-18, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by MGP

Really? Can you name, let's say, 2 buffs for TR in the last 6 months?
Also, speaking of crying, entire official forum is basically an ocean of NC tears, some ow which are spilling over to PSU and Reddit. Like that's NOT LOUD ENOUGH?!

Vulcan and fractures along with a whole slew of nerfs to the NC. Notice how 6 months ago the forums were nothing but TR and VS tears? I'm saying it worked.

*Edit* AGAIN they're not bad they're just not versatile that's the problem they overperform in a single category and underperform in every other. It's not that we're saying the dmg on them is bad or anything. Personally I'd prefer another weapon all together, you simple can't balance shotguns in a way that the users and recieivers will be happy with it. As an OPTION shotguns are great. As your only force of damage? Yeah I'd rather not have to be within c4 range 24/7 to be effective.

War Barney · 2013-11-18, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by KesTro

Vulcan and fractures along with a whole slew of nerfs to the NC. Notice how 6 months ago the forums were nothing but TR and VS tears? I'm saying it worked.

*Edit* AGAIN they're not bad they're just not versatile that's the problem they overperform in a single category and underperform in every other. It's not that we're saying the dmg on them is bad or anything. Personally I'd prefer another weapon all together, you simple can't balance shotguns in a way that the users and recieivers will be happy with it. As an OPTION shotguns are great. As your only force of damage? Yeah I'd rather not have to be within c4 range 24/7 to be effective.

Exactly, the only situation our MAX is good is right up next to people in all other situations its useless. It means they aren't to bad for the MAX rushes are you end up close anyway but they are useless for general fighting.

And falcon don't troll the topic

ringring · 2013-11-18, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by War Barney

Exactly, the only situation our MAX is good is right up next to people in all other situations its useless. It means they aren't to bad for the MAX rushes are you end up close anyway but they are useless for general fighting.

And falcon don't troll the topic

Well with Kestro's contribution and this we get to it. You started off saying the NC max is almost completely useless and now we get to the point where what you actually want is for the NC maxes to be the strong in the areas/ranges where TR/VS maxes are.

As I said earlier this implies that you don't want asymmetric balance. Your ideal appears to be that maxes are NS and not empire specific.

NC maxes are kings in their domain, well maybe not kings but certainly best at the ranges they are best at.

As an aside NC maxes have been buffed. The new Bio lab layout with the new barriers effectively reduce engagement ranges somewhat, which is an NC max buff, of a kind.

I often find myself arguing against buffs but normally it's me saying TR maxes and claymores don't need buffs; I also think fractures could do with a little nerf but I am 100% for assymetricity (new word invented).

Chewy · 2013-11-18, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by MGP

No, i'm saying what measuring effectiveness by shooting stationary targets in VR is dumb idea.

This isn't the first time I was told those words.

Using VR tests don't show live gameplay, they show perfect conditions without any outside interference. No moving to grow the COF. No dodging shots. No need to track a target. No unknown armor levels. No other players doing damage. No distractions. Nothing but you and the target.

I boiled the tests as much as I could by removing all skill and variables as possible. The tests show a baseline of what those weapons will do. Good players will do better, bad players will do worse. But this is what the weapons will do in game every time before the user gets a hold of them.

By removing as much personal skill as I could and getting as close to perfect conditions as possible at the time the tests should be as fair as I could have made them. If I had used live gameplay then the millions of variables would have made the tests useless for comparing with each other as each test would have its own conditions that would have been impossible to remake.

The reasoning I had for doing the tests like this was to be fair. Not cherry pick data and use lucky/skilled gameplay, but to be as fair as possible. If things in perfect conditions are fucked then it is safe to assume it is near impossible for them to not be fucked anywhere else.

Without first finding a way to make the tests fair, any tests would be pointless to do.

KesTro · 2013-11-19, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by ringring

I also think fractures could do with a little nerf but I am 100% for assymetricity (new word invented).

Only for the AI damage along with the comets and falcons, then we're gravy. As for 'assymetricity' I like it! The only problem there is what people have been arguing for months. If every faction is balanced the same way then they will all feel same. So they need to find some sort of balance to have units able to perform the same roles but still differentiate between the factions. How to go about doing this? I rightly can't say.

The new Bio-lab layouts do seem to help the NC but you could argue it helps the VS and TR just as much, they have another wall to hide behind and cover the flight pad from a safe distance instead of the building in front and beside that building. Can't defend those areas too well as an NC MAX. You would have to let them actually get inside the Bio-Lab before you could really start doing some damage. I forget who it was that posted the video but it was essentially a TR MAX holding off infantry waves from a good 30m away. While that's 'possible' with an NC MAX you would only be able to kill two maybe three infantry before having to reload (Which we do all too frequently), we don't get that same suppression mechanic the other empires do.

On the other hand as an NC MAX when we're in your face there really isn't a chance at surviving unless you have full kinetic or an engineer repairing you from behind a wall. As infantry? You're pretty much dead. It just seems as though they tried to balance the NC MAX with trade offs in mind while the other two empires feel largely similar. Personally I feel the NC MAX sacrifices too much in the other areas to excel in CQC. With the addition of Flamethrowers I'm really hoping we'll see some sort of NS ranged weaponry for the MAX's so we can all stop bitching about our MAX's weapons(to a degree).

Speaking of Flamethrowers and perhaps this is a bit of a derailment but I am curious. What do you guys believe their damage will be effected by? Kinetic/nanoweave - flak - or nothing?

mrmrmrj · 2013-11-19, 10:09 AM

Increase the effectiveness of slugs against MAXes and the cert cost becomes worthwhile. I have also come to conclusion that charge is better than Aegis. It is also worth practicing with Raven/Mattock pairings. Lastly, all NC AI should be full auto. Why to the other factions gets full auto AI?

War Barney · 2013-11-19, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by mrmrmrj

Increase the effectiveness of slugs against MAXes and the cert cost becomes worthwhile. I have also come to conclusion that charge is better than Aegis. It is also worth practicing with Raven/Mattock pairings. Lastly, all NC AI should be full auto. Why to the other factions gets full auto AI?

The advantage of the shield with the shotguns is you can put it up while reloading which is a big help but of course while doing that its free time for an enemy light or heavy to throw a C4 at you and is a HUGE sign that you wont be attacking for a while.

oldivonboldi · 2013-11-19, 10:28 AM

today 15 Nov 2013, is the servers down everywhere or is it just me. It says server locked

BRUTALPLAYS · 2013-11-19, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by KesTro

hoping we'll see some sort of NS ranged weaponry for the MAX's so we can all stop bitching about our MAX's weapons(to a degree).

I can see this being good and bad. On one hand, NC will have access to a ranged weapon. On the other hand, they still will have access to shotguns while TR/VS do not. Just my thoughts on that.

Originally Posted by KesTro

Speaking of Flamethrowers and perhaps this is a bit of a derailment but I am curious. What do you guys believe their damage will be effected by? Kinetic/nanoweave - flak - or nothing?

I would think that flak would effect damage from a flame thrower, but Im pretty sure flak only effects splash damage (I can be wrong) and I dont see a flamethrower doing splash damage. So maybe it would be nanoweave that effects flamethrower damage.

War Barney · 2013-11-19, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by BRUTALPLAYS

I can see this being good and bad. On one hand, NC will have access to a ranged weapon. On the other hand, they still will have access to shotguns while TR/VS do not. Just my thoughts on that.

I would think that flak would effect damage from a flame thrower, but Im pretty sure flak only effects splash damage (I can be wrong) and I dont see a flamethrower doing splash damage. So maybe it would be nanoweave that effects flamethrower damage.

As I and most NC players have said over and over, take our shotguns we don't want them, we never have.