News: Resolved - PS2 Region - Page 67

Skitrel · 2012-03-20, 08:36 AM

Hmm, interesting. Most people tend to end up with tonnes of crossover due to playing with various guilds/clans or in Planetside's case, outfits. I find it a rarity that people don't at least know 1 person in their community that's out of country.

Take this forum for example, I'm damn sure many people here would love to play with one another, I'd be happy to shoot some heads off with you for example Coreldan, and I'd like to have the option to shoot anyone's head off given the choice too.

There's also another fundamental issue here. The PS team clearly have intentions of making a go of PS2 in the esports field. Someone mentioned it being impossible over on reddit and Higby's response was "Says you", clearly indicating their intentions. Region locking when you want to do esports is absolutely ludicrous, you basically disallow euros from competing with Americans? That splits the competitive community in half and never ever allows the two from truly discovering or proving who the best is. Worse if you further cut it up into even more communities. The best BF team worldwide right now for example happens to be a euro team.

Region locking limits the game, limiting the game is a bad thing. If SOE have intentions of the game being AAA then they should be staying away from absolutely anything that does that. Even more so - they should be doing absolutely everything they can to maintain THEIR control over the game, not passing off server control to other companies. When other companies have a different motivation it'll be a recipe for disaster.

I probably speak from a slightly biased position, but I at least fill the esports experience category, having had tonnes of fun playing competitively in loads of games over the years.

Coreldan · 2012-03-20, 08:44 AM

Im not pro-region lock or anything nor do I have experience with e sports, but is e-sports viable if/when the other team has double the latency? Like, if the competition is hosted in NA and some EU team takes part.

Eyeklops · 2012-03-20, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Firstly, I'm from Britain, I ping east coast servers in BF3 at around 50-80.

Ok, I see your point. No region lock, instead lets have a ping limiter.

Originally Posted by Skitrel

It will punish every single outfit that has anyone at all outside of their region.
It will punish every single person that has any friends at all that have moved country in their lifetime.
It will punish every single person that serves in the military, not being able to connect to US servers while in service (yes they do get to game in their off hours).
It will punish a ludicrous number of people.
The only person that suffers a slightly lower game quality is the person out of country. Nobody else.

Please stop speaking in absolutes like you are an authority. And if you are an authority please provide reference data, preferably links to technical articles. To me, most of your posts seem intelligent, but making statements of unfounded fact may only serve to water down your arguments.

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Are you a developer? From what experience do you say this from? From what technical standpoint?

A statement like this can easily be turned around onto yourself. Calling out another persons credentials usually works best when you supply yours at the same time.

Skitrel · 2012-03-20, 09:51 AM

Usually it's a none-issue, anything below 150ms these days is perfectly acceptable and the difference is completely negligible the majority of the time. There was once a time where this mattered, when fps games were ludicrously fast back in the days of Quake and UT. But by comparison these days BF and Cod are a fifth of the speed and latency has nowhere near the same effect on who the winners are.

Most people that play competitive understand this. Most of the time any latency complaints are just people trying to find excuses to blame when the reality is that they played poorly. Good example of this was Epsilon vs RivaL, which happened on a US server yet Epsilon dominated them. These days it's just not really something that plays enough of a part to be a bother to competitive play. The bigger worry is in the fact that stopping hacking in these online competitive things is almost impossible, things like mouse drivers being able to contain macros now make it impossible to stop recoil cheating and the like.

Stew · 2012-03-20, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Firstly, I'm from Britain, I ping east coast servers in BF3 at around 50-80.

What year do you live in? Most of us have spent 15+years at the least building up our networks of friends, guilds, clans. Some of us have competed in the WCG in various games over the years, many people have competed in multiple leagues all over the world, others simply have various friends from various guilds the world over. The only people that have friends that are ONLY local to them are people that haven't been gaming for very long and have never really gamed with people outside of their real life social circles.

It will punish every single outfit that has anyone at all outside of their region.
It will punish every single person that has any friends at all that have moved country in their lifetime.
It will punish every single person that serves in the military, not being able to connect to US servers while in service (yes they do get to game in their off hours).
It will punish a ludicrous number of people.

Are you a developer? From what experience do you say this from? From what technical standpoint?

Speaking from actual knowledge of this subject. It is a fucking MYTH that high ping users on a server cause everyone on a server to have a higher ping, I'd love for someone to attempt to argue with this and explain why, I will get a considerable laugh out of it.

The only person that suffers a slightly lower game quality is the person out of country. Nobody else.

Lmfao. This is hilarious. Do go into more detail.

Sure, if we were all still playing UT and Quake the argument for region lockdowns would be correct, netcode has come a long way since then though, one person's lag does not cause everyone else to lag.

The facts is thats agains all the thing thats you name are for a few minority and not for the majority how many people thats you personally know who have best friends living in another continents ?

Most people have their friends around them or at least on the same continents i have a very few online european friends because i dont want to go play in EU servers so i make friends mostly in US and canada and my friends live near by me ...

It willl ((( punish )) like u said a few minority and thats the truth i know you guys can speak loud because it dosent fit whats you personally want ...

but the facts is thats NEw tech or New netcode will not change ping (( Bullets compensation systhem )) Make laggy people to get a advantage over NOn laggy folk ... So ur arguments is invalid

Playing agains an east based american in a east based servers will result in BF3 in a better experience more fluid and enjoyable and fair competitive experience ...Having a few european in our easter servers make the game unstable frustrating and anoying ...

Thats all you talk about Old games like UT and quake can you name a SINGLE game thats fit ur concept or (( the new futur of the super net code of the futur ))) ?

Ive never seen a single game thats have a net code thats make a multi continents experience enjoyable In a first personne shooter and even in a MMO rpg ive never seen thats those experience always result in a unstable unpredictable laggy experience

Thats all whats iam asking for ?

LOCK servers for those who want them and UNLOCK servers for the few folk who want to play multi region whith their exile friends !

Stew · 2012-03-20, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Eyeklops

Although I have somewhat stepped back in my advocating of having a region lock, I am not sure that you can accurately support this claim either.

From what I have been seeing, most of the people that are against the region lock are the people who still play PS1 and have created friends "across the pond." To be fair, there appears to also be a vocal minority in a few other areas of the world that are against it, as well as some sympathetic friends. But how many people do you think that really is in total? 10,000? Lets double that for good measure, 20,000 people would be a generous number don't you think? Feel free to add your own speculated number, to disagree with my speculated number.

Now..how many new people do you think will sign up for a F2P AAA FPS title? 1,000,000? Lets divide that speculation by 4 just to be safe and say 250,000 new players. I can't imagine SOE would be investing so much energy for less than that amount of players.

These new 250,000 players probably won't have this "overseas" bond. They will most likely be coming from other AAA FPS titles where the general rule of thumb is play on the lowest ping server. I highly doubt they will have much sympathy for the anti region lock cause.

Putting all this speculation together, one could reason the new players are the majority. And one could reason that the majority would dislike people not playing on the proper server for that region. Therefore the majority may feel that NOT having a region lock will effect them in a negative way.

I highlighted the above words, fragments, and punctuation to point out the effort I made to avoid "fallacies of reasoning." Learning how to structure posts without falling prey to these common reasoning mistakes usually reduces the amount of non-constructive argument from the people who passed reading comprehension in high school.

THUMB up (Y) well said bro !

megamold · 2012-03-20, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Eyeklops

Although I have somewhat stepped back in my advocating of having a region lock, I am not sure that you can accurately support this claim either.

From what I have been seeing, most of the people that are against the region lock are the people who still play PS1 and have created friends "across the pond." To be fair, there appears to also be a vocal minority in a few other areas of the world that are against it, as well as some sympathetic friends. But how many people do you think that really is in total? 10,000? Lets double that for good measure, 20,000 people would be a generous number don't you think? Feel free to add your own speculated number, to disagree with my speculated number.

Now..how many new people do you think will sign up for a F2P AAA FPS title? 1,000,000? Lets divide that speculation by 4 just to be safe and say 250,000 new players. I can't imagine SOE would be investing so much energy for less than that amount of players.

These new 250,000 players probably won't have this "overseas" bond. They will most likely be coming from other AAA FPS titles where the general rule of thumb is play on the lowest ping server. I highly doubt they will have much sympathy for the anti region lock cause.

Putting all this speculation together, one could reason the new players are the majority. And one could reason that the majority would dislike people not playing on the proper server for that region. Therefore the majority may feel that NOT having a region lock will effect them in a negative way.

I highlighted the above words, fragments, and punctuation to point out the effort I made to avoid "fallacies of reasoning." Learning how to structure posts without falling prey to these common reasoning mistakes usually reduces the amount of non-constructive argument from the people who passed reading comprehension in high school.

you make a very good point, and i would tend to agree.
i'm not 100% for region locking, but i can see where the devs are coming from.

i think my worries come from the region locking combined with the pro7 thing.
in any case, region locking is not gonna stop me from playing, i'll most likely just have less fun the first few months.
i'll probably look up the server the ps1 EU vets are on, and join that server ( if there will be multiple EU servers )
i wanna serve under someone with experience

Skitrel · 2012-03-20, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Stew

The facts is thats agains all the thing thats you name are for a few minority and not for the majority how many people thats you personally know who have best friends living in another continents ?

Most people have their friends around them or at least on the same continents i have a very few online european friends because i dont want to go play in EU servers so i make friends mostly in US and canada and my friends live near by me ...

It willl ((( punish )) like u said a few minority and thats the truth i know you guys can speak loud because it dosent fit whats you personally want ...

but the facts is thats NEw tech or New netcode will not change ping (( Bullets compensation systhem )) Make laggy people to get a advantage over NOn laggy folk ... So ur arguments is invalid

Playing agains an east based american in a east based servers will result in BF3 in a better experience more fluid and enjoyable and fair competitive experience ...Having a few european in our easter servers make the game unstable frustrating and anoying ...

Thats all you talk about Old games like UT and quake can you name a SINGLE game thats fit ur concept or (( the new futur of the super net code of the futur ))) ?

Ive never seen a single game thats have a net code thats make a multi continents experience enjoyable In a first personne shooter and even in a MMO rpg ive never seen thats those experience always result in a unstable unpredictable laggy experience

Thats all whats iam asking for ?

LOCK servers for those who want them and UNLOCK servers for the few folk who want to play multi region whith their exile friends !

If you're not going to take the time to write coherently, I'm not going to take the time to read what you write, and neither will anyone else on the forums for that matter. Dis iz not facebook bruv. Nor is it a text message. Take the time to spell and write coherently.

At a glance I noticed "ur argument is invalid" somewhere in the middle though, that's more than enough to destroy your credibility and respect on the forum permanently. Grow up.

Stew · 2012-03-20, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Hmm, interesting. Most people tend to end up with tonnes of crossover due to playing with various guilds/clans or in Planetside's case, outfits. I find it a rarity that people don't at least know 1 person in their community that's out of country.

Take this forum for example, I'm damn sure many people here would love to play with one another, I'd be happy to shoot some heads off with you for example Coreldan, and I'd like to have the option to shoot anyone's head off given the choice too.

There's also another fundamental issue here. The PS team clearly have intentions of making a go of PS2 in the esports field. Someone mentioned it being impossible over on reddit and Higby's response was "Says you", clearly indicating their intentions. Region locking when you want to do esports is absolutely ludicrous, you basically disallow euros from competing with Americans? That splits the competitive community in half and never ever allows the two from truly discovering or proving who the best is. Worse if you further cut it up into even more communities. The best BF team worldwide right now for example happens to be a euro team.

Region locking limits the game, limiting the game is a bad thing. If SOE have intentions of the game being AAA then they should be staying away from absolutely anything that does that. Even more so - they should be doing absolutely everything they can to maintain THEIR control over the game, not passing off server control to other companies. When other companies have a different motivation it'll be a recipe for disaster.

I probably speak from a slightly biased position, but I at least fill the esports experience category, having had tonnes of fun playing competitively in loads of games over the years.

WHen you planned to Esports a game u must have the most robust and stable infrastructure ! Did you think the pro gamers will make competition with some folk with 300 + ping in a LAN competition ?

Its almost 0 ping if euro players want to Esports agains american and vice versa they have to moove themself the another continent competition

Its like if a european poker players want to play pro poker at las vegas he will have to moove from monaco to las vegas ! Same for Esports

More competitive is the game better the connection and ping requirement should be !

And you can have best euro players nest Na players and best asian players but you cant mix them all in a LAG fest to play in a pro circuit expecially with those numbers like 2000 players ? try to figure out 10 laggy thats you shoot but dont die another guy with a good ping shoot you while you try to kill a guys thats actually is not anymore where you shoot at him ... the guys with a good ping will take you out and this will result in a unfair (( lucky or unlucky )) frustrating experience based on luck and not on skills ...

More stability is more skills wise lowest ping = more skills based more fair and more enjoyable

Duddy · 2012-03-20, 01:59 PM

I'm sorry Stew, but your writing style makes your posts a chore to read. I apologise if English is perhaps not your first language, but if it is then you really need to expend some more effort in communicating clearly.

As for what you're saying, I understand your conjecture and the perspective you seem to be talking from. But what you say is not explicitly true.

Probably THE biggest E-Sport title out there at the moment, Starcraft 2, regularly has tournaments that have international players. This said, they do also have tournaments specific to region.

When it comes to competitive play, which is to say where there is a prize (more likely monetary) on the line, then I think anyone would understand attempting to normalise conditions to create the best environment for competition.

However, modern technology does allow for international play and despite your doubts there are games that allow for free play between different regions. And in a context that isn't "professional" it isn't such a big issue.

To talk about an example I have personal experience with, Global Agenda allows you to freely choose which region you play in and from what I heard, Tribes Ascend (also by HiRez Studios) allows for this too.

As others have noted, it is the player playing outside of their regions that will suffer the ill effects of their decision, not so much the native players. This may have been the case in the days where we relied on CSHD, but in the age of SSHD and hybridised models it really doesn't work how you perceive it to.

Naturally, we have no way to judge how it will work/behave in PS2, so perhaps you should wait and see before declaring it won't work.

Stew · 2012-03-20, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Duddy

I'm sorry Stew, but your writing style makes your posts a chore to read. I apologise if English is perhaps not your first language, but if it is then you really need to expend some more effort in communicating clearly.

As for what you're saying, I understand your conjecture and the perspective you seem to be talking from. But what you say is not explicitly true.

Probably THE biggest E-Sport title out there at the moment, Starcraft 2, regularly has tournaments that have international players. This said, they do also have tournaments specific to region.

When it comes to competitive play, which is to say where there is a prize (more likely monetary) on the line, then I think anyone would understand attempting to normalise conditions to create the best environment for competition.

However, modern technology does allow for international play and despite your doubts there are games that allow for free play between different regions. And in a context that isn't "professional" it isn't such a big issue.

To talk about an example I have personal experience with, Global Agenda allows you to freely choose which region you play in and from what I heard, Tribes Ascend (also by HiRez Studios) allows for this too.

As others have noted, it is the player playing outside of their regions that will suffer the ill effects of their decision, not so much the native players. This may have been the case in the days where we relied on CSHD, but in the age of SSHD and hybridised models it really doesn't work how you perceive it to.

Naturally, we have no way to judge how it will work/behave in PS2, so perhaps you should wait and see before declaring it won't work.

Star craft 2 First of all isnt a FPS ... In a fps game frame rates and PING are crucial ...

In a game like star craft you can have a little bit more latency but even in star craft most competition will be in LAN with almost 0 ping ...

In a shooter game your PING is the thing to ensure a Fair and Enjoyable competition ...

Tribes assend was a really bad game from my beta experience ... Global agenda was fun tho but having to play agains russian etc.. was painful and laggy as hell !

Planetside 2 is a skills based shooter like battlefield , MAG , games like that with team work vehicules and a lots of players and even a bazillions more than those 2 game are featured in PS2 so the Ping will make the difference between OWNing or Getting OWN !

Iam not agains Friendly (( unlock servers ))

But iam agains serious multi contiments competition i want regions to play toghuether to have a fair and enjoyable competition ...

And in order for this game to succeed the dev team have to avoid Lattency issue at all cost because if most people who play this game and it result in a unstable laggy experience they will not give it a shot anymore !

So region lock for most servers

Friendly unlock ones in cases and for those who want to play with foreign friends etc...

is thats a good plan ?

Shogun · 2012-03-20, 02:25 PM

i never thought the first guy on my ignore list would be an nc, but it hurts reading so bad writing in combination with total ignorance and stupidity.

ranting about ping on a game nobody has even played and that will use a brandnew method of hit detection and the newest netcode especially designed for this new type of game is just stupid. wait for beta. IF ping is any problem, we will notice then.

what we know without beta is, that most bigger clans and gaming communitys have international players and will be screwed if they cannot play together. and this is the subject of this thread. along with the problem that all europeans will have to relay on indirect support because of pro7.
and those who don´t believe that these issues affect the majority of players, go and take a look at other soe games forums like eq2 and check the serverlock threads there... but if reading this little thread here is too much for you, good luck on the eq2 forums.

Stew · 2012-03-20, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Shogun

i never thought the first guy on my ignore list would be an nc, but it hurts reading so bad writing in combination with total ignorance and stupidity.

ranting about ping on a game nobody has even played and that will use a brandnew method of hit detection and the newest netcode especially designed for this new type of game is just stupid. wait for beta. IF ping is any problem, we will notice then.

what we know without beta is, that most bigger clans and gaming communitys have international players and will be screwed if they cannot play together. and this is the subject of this thread. along with the problem that all europeans will have to relay on indirect support because of pro7.
and those who don´t believe that these issues affect the majority of players, go and take a look at other soe games forums like eq2 and check the serverlock threads there... but if reading this little thread here is too much for you, good luck on the eq2 forums.

The real questions is Based on your own experience what game have featured a LAG free experience with a free for all regions multicontinents aproach ?

Ive never ever seen a single game like this everytime when their is asian or euro in our NA servers their is lattency their is frustration their is unfair laggy thing !

I want this game to succeed so i want a lag free experienced for most of us on every continents ...

I also want a few regions open servers for those who want to use them !

So everyones happy

Duddy · 2012-03-20, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Stew

The real questions is Based on your own experience what game have featured a LAG free experience with a free for all regions multicontinents aproach ?

Ive never ever seen a single game like this everytime when their is asian or euro in our NA servers their is lattency their is frustration their is unfair laggy thing !

I want this game to succeed so i want a lag free experienced for most of us on every continents ...

I also want a few regions open servers for those who want to use them !

So everyones happy

I think everyone wants a good gameplay experience, Stew.

As you point out however to Shogun, this is all down to ones own perception and experiences, and that includes your own.

The idea of region locked and additional unlocked servers has bounced through here already, so you're not alone on that thought. It does bring up the issue of segregating the player base (potentially needlessly) once again though.

As has been echoed so many a time, I think we all need to experience it before we can ultimately say one way or the other.

Skitrel · 2012-03-20, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Stew

WHen you planned to Esports a game u must have the most robust and stable infrastructure ! Did you think the pro gamers will make competition with some folk with 300 + ping in a LAN competition ?

I'm not even going to go further than this sentence. LAN doesn't have ping. LAN isn't online gaming.

You're an idiot who's attempting to argue and speak from a position of authority when you in fact know absolutely nothing at all, and can't even write a single sentence without a grammatical or spelling error. If I were going to hazard a guess, you're either under 16 or a troll.