Religion

[Warborn]

People are cruel to each other. The shining flaw that lets you know all religions are fit to throw in the trash is that not one of them are so compelling that their supposed adherents abide by the religion's standards. Ain't a one. So debating whether Muslims are X or Y is chasing your tails. Muslims are people. They will do both good and evil regardless of what their religion says, because their religion is horseshit like all the rest.

[codylee]

it's strange when a Muslim tells you there blah blah blah only talks about peace and the crazy suicide people are trators.. then you come to a forum and everyone talks about it as if it's the religion that tells you to kill everyone as if they have known it there whole lives lol... this stuff is Truly funny to see

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by codylee

it's strange when a Muslim tells you there blah blah blah only talks about peace and the crazy suicide people are trators..

Usually referred to as a no true Scotsman logical fallacy. I think Warborn hit on the point I've seen used most often. Religious people are human. They'll always find a way to justify their actions. Religion just happens to be an easy scapegoat for extremists. (This applies to all extremists, such as the WBC). Essentially if you can make up rules (Scientology for instance) you can get away with almost anything. It's even easier if you can get others to believe in them.

[therandomone]

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Usually referred to as a no true Scotsman logical fallacy. I think Warborn hit on the point I've seen used most often. Religious people are human. They'll always find a way to justify their actions. Religion just happens to be an easy scapegoat for extremists. (This applies to all extremists, such as the WBC). Essentially if you can make up rules (Scientology for instance) you can get away with almost anything. It's even easier if you can get others to believe in them.

Thats not a no true scotsmans argument at all. When the religious text you follow outlines certain rules, and you don't follow them. Then by definition they aren't of that religion, just a twisted concept they believe to be that religion.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by therandomone

Thats not a no true scotsmans argument at all. When the religious text you follow outlines certain rules, and you don't follow them. Then by definition they aren't of that religion, just a twisted concept they believe to be that religion.

Goes the other way around as well: if you have a revised version of a religion that you perceive as the improved version and actual intentions of said religion, then you can easily end up with people pulling a "no true scotsman" in both directions.

Protestants, Catholics, Reformed, Anglicans, Evangelics, Baptists, Orthodox, etc etc.

Who's the true scotsman?

[therandomone]

Originally Posted by Figment

Goes the other way around as well: if you have a revised version of a religion that you perceive as the improved version and actual intentions of said religion, then you can easily end up with people pulling a "no true scotsman" in both directions.

Protestants, Catholics, Reformed, Anglicans, Evangelics, Baptists, Orthodox, etc etc.

Who's the true scotsman?

Im going to be honest here and just say that is a clusterfuck I dont want to mess around with. Too many sects/branches of Christianity if you ask me. My point was merely to defend Islam. Which is my favorite personally, and plus I always like defending the underdog that gets shit on for no reason. Don't get me wrong, I think the theology of all religions is garbage, but I like the philosophy. Plus, Muslims as a whole have generally out performed other religions as I detailed earlier.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by therandomone

My point was merely to defend Islam. Which is my favorite personally, and plus I always like defending the underdog that gets shit on for no reason.

I've seen this discussed briefly, but few if anyone attacks Islam because it's too easy. I mean take their prophet. Mohammed was a pedophile that owned slaves. I don't know how much you've read about Mohammed's life and what he said, but I assume you know of the atrocities he committed. These kind of details are often covered up when people tried to reinvent Islam as a religion of peace. Same thing happened to the Catholic religion after the medieval inquisitions when the Catholic church cleaned up their act and tried to reinvent itself. Most religions have a huge dark side to their history. It's interesting watching followers shun those parts. That's one of the common trends now with religions is forgetting the history and simply advocating a pure form of the religion. You get this with Christian and Islam apologetics.

From an outside point of view defending Islam is interesting. Much like Christian followers, most have no idea what their prophets did or what their book teaches. Or they reinterpret it to allow anything. The biggest problem you'll see nowadays is with extremists who use the promise of an afterlife to become suicide bombers. I'm glad few if any Christians take their belief in an afterlife to that extreme. (Other than Christian "scientists" or possibly JW and their whole blood transfusion stuff until death).

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by therandomone

Thats not a no true scotsmans argument at all. When the religious text you follow outlines certain rules, and you don't follow them. Then by definition they aren't of that religion, just a twisted concept they believe to be that religion.

This isn't really a satisfactory answer, though. Nobody follows all of the provisions their religion puts forward, and as the men who wrote these books knew their rules would be impossible to follow, they allowed people to beg their God for forgiveness (or even buy indulgences in the case of the Christians). And that's to say nothing about intrinsic contradictions within the books' very pages.

So if every religious person is expected to be unable to comply with the standards of his religion, then how do you even identify what a "real" Christian is, or what a "real" Muslim is? Either nobody is a valid Christian/Muslim/etc, or everyone who simply says there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Prophet is a Muslim, and etc etc about Jesus for Christians.

[Sabot]

Originally Posted by NivexQ

Mods, if you don't think this post/poll is appropriate, feel free to close/delete the thread without any explanation. I'll understand.

This is one of the things that is so VERY wrong about religion.

I'm sorry OP, but I do have to say this (and I didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if it's already been mentioned).

WHY is it that we can question someones political or philosophical beliefs, but when it comes to religion, all of a sudden it's all very tabu and you can't say anything because that would be like questioning someones skin color or sexuallity (something religion actually still does). Religion should NOT be given special treatment, and should be the subject of critical questioning just like every other aspect of society is!

And BTW, I'm an anti-theist... wasn't in the poll so I voted ahteist though.

[Figment]

The main reason it's often tabu on internet forums is because mods hate the flamewars involved.

[Sabot]

Sure.. but they shouldn't they expect it in a forum called "political debate"? And a debate on the internet is, as we all know, going to devolve into a flamewar eventually... especially on these matters. And this actually demonstrates my point better... when we're talking politics; "flame on"! When it's religion; "I'm sorry for posting this delete if I offended anyone!"

[Baneblade]

Only the truth is offensive.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Sabot

Sure.. but they shouldn't they expect it in a forum called "political debate"? And a debate on the internet is, as we all know, going to devolve into a flamewar eventually... especially on these matters. And this actually demonstrates my point better... when we're talking politics; "flame on"! When it's religion; "I'm sorry for posting this delete if I offended anyone!"

Never said I didn't agree with you.


I always like when you call someone a hypocrite because they just made a hypocritical statement and they go "stop being so hostile and insulting!".

[Sabot]

Originally Posted by Figment

Never said I didn't agree with you.


I always like when you call someone a hypocrite because they just made a hypocritical statement and they go "stop being so hostile and insulting!".

There's no arguing, discussing or reasoning with those people... you'll go insane before you make them understand.

[EisenKreutzer]

I'm an atheistic buddhist, so I had some trouble answering the poll. :P In the end, I chose atheism because thats the defining characteristic of my spirituality (or lack of one).