Tank drivers acting as gunners in PS2 - Page 7

sylphaen · 2011-09-16, 08:13 PM

To me, a decision like that simply proves their view that Planetside 2 will be an infantry game where vehicles are meant to serve as an enjoyment or to serve those infantry players.

My best time with PS1 has been group vehicles. I met great guys over the years and getting to play together overshadowed all the mediocre gunners I had the unfortunate chance to get in the gunner seat.

When I get a tank or buggy in PS1, I do not feel "why do I cert something where only others but me can enjoy the gun". This is selfish others-are-a-just-a-means-to-reach-my-selfish-goals state of mind.

As I said, I met great gunners and I loved every minute playing with them. It was challenging to coordinate, it was challenging to position the tank, give them good aim, read the way the battle is going, not overextend, etc...

To me, this is what made PS1 truly superior to any other FPS.

While a lot boast their own personal performance ("You suck! I do 40K/3D/0A any day in 15 minutes!"), I feel pride from seeing a frag ratio like this in PS: 10 K/20 D/100 A from vehicle runs. It's the success of 2 people having overcome coordination challenges and working as one.

A lot of people keep talking about "skill" and I think someone even mentionned something like "solo driving & gunning will raise "skilled" players above the herd and show who the losers are". Technically, I agree. A better player is a better player Now should people who prefer teamplay over solo be forced into it?

(OOT: by the way, I believe a good player does not need to boast about being good. With him playing better, his skill will simply show itself as he plays and respect would flow naturally from it; The "skill" word is being used so condescendingly nowadays that I almost feel it is only used to put others down nowadays instead of showing how you respect someone and his proficiency).

Even if we get the option to have a dedicated gunner on the main gunner, should the whole game dynamic be balanced penalize around solo ? Someone made that great point: would you rather have 1 vehicle with 2 gunners or 2 vehicles with 1 ? The secondary gun would truly have to have a role unique to that vehicle or we would always roll 2 vehicles with dedicated roles.

Another player mentionned the "disposable" feeling of BF vehicles: I played only BF2142 but I felt like that too and never enjoyed it. In PS1, having a vehicle with longer longevity made me care about keeping it alive and repaired. Making it last was a nice challenge. Having an extra guy also added responsibility in your actions and pushed for improvement.

In summary, I feel that 2 or 3 people learning to know each other well and think/act as one weapon a whole different level of game and I like it. This is what I consider to be the "MMO" part in MMOFPS.

I would not be playing Planetside anymore if it was not for my outfit and the great guys in it. The majority of us are not Navy Seals like content PS-wise but we get along well and have a lot of fun playing the game.

If PS is meant to be BF with a large map, more players and placeholder vehicles, you can forget seeing me play as a driver i.e. forget about me certing vehicles to be the bitch of a class which will only exist for the purpose of being Anti-Armor. I'd rather pick-up a support kit and play with a HMG all day.

Of course, take what I say with a grain of salt.

Will armor battles be fun ? No one knows. Will the vehicle game-mechanics design and its balance with infantry in a heavily infantry-centric game make great and fun battles for everyone ? Only time will tell.

I'm wait and see and hopefully, we will all love it. In that was, free-to-play is a great idea: it's as easy to enter the game as it is to drop from it if I do not enjoy my time.

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Edit: I'm OK with the inflated ego of air-vehicle players. If being good with flying gets as challenging as it sounds, being an ace will deserve a nice accolade.

Cheers to the reaver-whores whom I hate so much but do show incredible skill and intelligence at times !

Bags · 2011-09-16, 08:29 PM

^ I personally don't drive anything but buggies because driving is so boring!

sylphaen · 2011-09-16, 08:34 PM

But do you like gunning ?

There is always someone who likes the driving part.

and buggies are my favorite ! They really are little action-packed vehicles.

Talek Krell · 2011-09-16, 08:39 PM

I never liked buggies. Like wheeled coffins those things. In one case it doesn't even have the wheels!

BorisBlade · 2011-09-16, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

^ I personally don't drive anything but buggies because driving is so boring!

I love drivin the thresher (the awful physics made the enforcer/marauder handle like crap in comparison to the hover physics on the thresher), it was the most fun thing to drive in PS imo. Its too bad they never balanced the buggies appropriately. If they dont screw em up with the same "driver is the gunner too" crap then with specialization and more tweaks they could be crazy fun and actually very effective. I cant wait to see what happens with them. (as well as deliverer, loved its old school version before the tank buffs.)

Another good example of where its awesome to get a skilled driver, and a skilled gunner, two separated jobs, and head into a fight. Fun beyond belief with the quick hit and run guerilla tactics. The skilled and focused driver is every bit as important as the skilled and focused gunner. "Driver is the gunner too" would just kill this off completely. Good luck navigating at high speed while still shooting worth a darn as you bob and weave thru trees, over hills and also manuever thru enemies.

Baron · 2011-09-16, 08:43 PM

+1 Boris' post (rather than quote the entire thing) this mirrors my feelings as well.

Higby,

First, thank you for reading this thread and the PSU forums in general, we as posters and veterans of PS1 greatly appreciate it. Second, please consider the option to let drivers relinquish use of all vehicle weapons to the gunner, so that they can focus on driving (obviously special cases like the magrider may exist).

One situation in particular, the flee / evacuation / omg we're going to die run, has now become much harder. Since as the driver and gunner, you will not be able to effectively flee, navigate terrain AND keep firing at your attackers to defend yourself.

sylphaen · 2011-09-16, 08:55 PM

Forom the Q&A:

Wolfhound490: @planetside2 Is there going to be a pilot class? In ps1 you needed agile, in ps2 is the class that boosts vehicles?
@mhigby: @Wolfhound490 @planetside2 There isn't a "pilot class" for vehicles. Any non-heavy infantry class can pilot / gun in a vehicle.

I'm afraid they are aiming for vehicles more as a utility than as a dedicated playstyle. Basically, infantry game, jump in/out vehicles instantly (no animations), use vehicles to taxi from point A to point B, etc...

It does sound feel like a large-scale enhanced Battlefield clone.

I'm not saying that in a judgemental way, we'll see in time if it's a fun game or not. I just had expectations of something that would feel more PS-like rather than just the art or map-scale.

With different mission objectives, it will be like multiple BF maps all next to each other with players fighting in one zone or another. It can be a great game !

Forget PS though, the only thing not from BF is outfits. And hopefully, we'll have a lot more things for them than just a chat system (which they said we would).

I'm hopeful ! But we may as well forget PS as we knew/experienced/imagined it.

Bags · 2011-09-16, 08:57 PM

Uh, vehicles will "most likely have a start up sequence". Animations are pretty fluff.

sylphaen · 2011-09-16, 09:05 PM

Good luck navigating at high speed while still shooting worth a darn as you bob and weave thru trees, over hills and also manuever thru enemies.

Yes, fighting with a vehicle in a forest vs. infantry was quite challenging, fun and... balanced ?

Jammers were a great tool to control vehicle pushers (i.e. don't get too close so you don't get wasted, don't stay too far so you have a better chance vs. AV).

Just like you would deserve to get wasted if you overextend and get in big trouble, those troops deserved to get decimated for not being prepared. In PS1, enjoyed both playing trooper and driving vehicles.

If AT mines 2-shot tanks, it will be great to be engineer rather than bother with vehicles.

Anyways, of all this is conjecture... Everything will depend on how they balance playstyles... Or if a driver/gunner playstyle even remains a relevant concern in PS2...

sylphaen · 2011-09-16, 09:19 PM

most likely have a start up sequence

Sound of the engine starting and able to move the vehicle half a second later after your screen has switched from black to the vehicle HUD ?

I haven't played any recent BF game (so let me know if I am wrong) but what I understand with no animations is that you click and magic ! You're in the vehicle instantly.

Corollary assumption: if it is so fast to get in, it would be as fast to bail out of the vehicle and start blazing with your SMG/shotgun.

Some of those elements are somewhat present in PS1 (e.g. getting a "second-life" by bailing from a reaver and have a MCG?!?!) but are slower. So my concern is more about the feel of the gameplay and the image I get is something that will be totally different from PS.

It's necessarily a bad thing, just very different from the FPS I played some of the things I like might disappear while new things I will like may appear.

Bags · 2011-09-16, 09:20 PM

Like it will work like PS1 (delay wise), but just without the animations. That's what Higby hinted at tonight.

sylphaen · 2011-09-16, 09:22 PM

Ah ok, thanks Bags.

Scow2 · 2011-09-16, 09:25 PM

I don't like the idea of both gunning and driving an MBT.

Perhaps they could add three tiers of tanks?
1-man Light Tanks
2-man Medium tanks (Driver and Secondary Gunner)
3-man Heavy Tanks (The classic Driver, Main Gunner, and Secondary Gunner)

That way, the biggest guns still come at the greatest cost in manpower and teamwork required.

Then again, in PS1, I usually drove the Thunderer because it was more fun, and I could carry two gunners.

Bags · 2011-09-16, 09:31 PM

Well, they seem to be listening to us (went from no delay and animations to just no animations) so if you guys get united enough about this they may listen again!

SOE is doing the umpostibibble!

Sirisian · 2011-09-16, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

Well, they seem to be listening to us (went from no delay and animations to just no animations) so if you guys get united enough about this they may listen again!

Don't encourage them.

We got a good thing going here.