People who don't play in outfits - a growing problem? - Page 7

Helwyr · 2013-03-06, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by Sonny

Top comments in the reddit discussion so far for reasons not to be in an outfit:

1. People generally enjoy lonewolfing and bringing havoc to the enemy behind enemy lines.

2. Some don't like outfit politics, having 'leaders' and being forced to listen to their orders. The leaders sometimes take the game too seriously, which is annoying.

3. Others just don't want to join massive zerg outfits.

4. Some don't play enough to be willing to make the time commitment to an outfit.

Yup, those responses make a lot of sense.

The sort of outfit that actually offers things that can't be done solo by a competent player comes at a price many people including myself are not willing to pay. A lot of us just aren't interested in signing up to a all the obligations and demands placed on members of these outfits. Zerg or casual outfits offer nothing other than the ability to socialize, which depending on membership could be as much a curse as any benefit.

Add to this many of us have no problem being solo in either enjoyment or having an impact on the battle.

All that said I'm not anti outfit. I'd like to see the meta game have added depth so that coordinated strategy actually matters, which would greatly benefit organized outfits. I think for the better organized outfits that are also Faction orientated there's a leadership role to be taken as well. Way back on Emerald in PS1 I'd be solo 99% of the time, but I would also listen to the leaders of outfits like GOTR who were trying to organize the faction over chat. Didn't mean I'd go along with everything they said, but for the most part I did, and would adapt what I was doing as solo player to their broad instructions.

MaxDamage · 2013-03-06, 08:04 PM

I would like to, but they all play on Indar. All the time.
Esamir fo life.

Sifer2 · 2013-03-06, 11:50 PM

Every time I try to join a squad in this game honestly the leaders are usually incompetent. I find I get more xp/kills an hour just warping around the map going where I know we have a chance of winning. This is the main thing that has kept me from seeking out one of the bigger outfits. That, and I sometimes go away from the game for weeks at a time.

The problem if there is one is that the game is just extremely solo friendly. You can warp around the map every 5 minutes. The map tells you exactly where enemies are, and even how many. If you have any strategic sense you can go to places where you have a favorable shot of winning, and always be the one doing the camping instead of getting camped. This is easier than being a part of some guys squad who insists on attacking the most heavily defended base on the map getting you all killed over an over pretty quick.

Brusi · 2013-03-07, 12:16 AM

Well, considering the lack of any reason to capture or defend objectives (other than xp, whatever), the only real thing left is KDR, which is an individual objective.

From personal experience, if i play an objectives based session, with an outfit... i will often get a less than 1 KDR, where lone-wolfing and picking my fights will give me plenty of head popping, kill-streaking fun.

I am in no way endorsing the current state of the game, i think it is sick. Hopefully GU04,05,06...etc... will give us strategic map importance, continent locking, further facility benefits and other objective based rewards that endorse objective-based Outfit play.

phungus · 2013-03-07, 02:25 AM

No outfit I have ever joined takes even a modicum of interest in A2A ESFs. I've led platoons so I know it's impossible really, so I'm not blaming anyone. Point still remains though that if you want to fly an A2A ESF organized platoons or outfits are not for you unless you enjoy flying around aimlessly above a waypoin who's airspace has already been controlled by your group's AA MAXes.

If you have an outfit and believe you can account for A2A ESFs and have a dedicated purpose for them and are Connery as TR/NC, send an invite to HeckaMcGillicutty or phungus420, I'd love to have a wingman or do the same. As is though I have yet to find any group who realizes ESFs do things other then rocketpods, and I've yet to see a Platoon or Outfit organize beyond "get in vehicle X", "mass here", or play "follow the waypoint" so I'm not holding my breath.

phungus · 2013-03-07, 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by Brusi

Well, considering the lack of any reason to capture or defend objectives (other than xp, whatever), the only real thing left is KDR, which is an individual objective.

From personal experience, if i play an objectives based session, with an outfit... i will often get a less than 1 KDR, where lone-wolfing and picking my fights will give me plenty of head popping, kill-streaking fun.

I am in no way endorsing the current state of the game, i think it is sick. Hopefully GU04,05,06...etc... will give us strategic map importance, continent locking, further facility benefits and other objective based rewards that endorse objective-based Outfit play.

This is also true. Either my K/D or my SPH crashes in an organized platoon. I do much, much better stat wise leading myself.

p0intman · 2013-03-07, 02:57 AM

it isn't a problem. its also not your business as to if they play in an outfit or not. if they want to join one, they are more than capable. if they don't, who are you to suggest otherwise?

keep in mind, even if i am a member of an outfit, there are days where i will say fuck it and go off on my own. i did it in ps1 a lot, ill probably do it a ton in ps2 if i ever log back in, i did it during beta some.

Sonny · 2013-03-07, 03:32 AM

Originally Posted by p0intman

it isn't a problem. its also not your business as to if they play in an outfit or not. if they want to join one, they are more than capable. if they don't, who are you to suggest otherwise?

Of course, I'm not trying to tell people how to play. I don't mind if people play in outfits or not.

I'm simply bringing up a discussion that I found interesting - that a lot of people like to play solo in the game - and then trying to ask if this has any consequences for the game. If less and less people are in outfits over time because they prefer to play solo/in random groups - why is that, and does that mean anything for the future of the game?

I'm not forcing people to tell me if they're in an outfit or not, that's why this thread was posted on a public discussion board, so that people can choose to contribute with their own experiences or they can choose to completely ignore it.

Sonny

Rolfski · 2013-03-07, 05:09 AM

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

The answer is simple: People are different/differ in their moods.

Fixed it for you.

Sometimes I like to wander around just on my own, other times I can get a real kick when very tight team coordination and -tactics will get you that difficult objective. On another night, I'm can have hilarious times with others during some casual or goofy ops.

Lonewolf, formal ops or fun ops; it all just depends on my mood.

The title is wrong, it shouldn't been seen as a "problem". Like LevelCap, I would really like to know though what the percentage of non-outfit players is.

JesNC · 2013-03-07, 05:48 AM

It's not so much the outfitless players that are the problem, but the mindset surrounding the whole outfitless/lonewolf issue.

Lonewolving can be extremely effective and a huge boon to your team, simply because a single unnoticed person can cause excessive damage to the enemy (especially if he/she's an Engineer

).
Unfortunately, most of the solo players are no career lone wolves and are performing rather sub-par in my experience. I'm talking - of course - about those people riding the gunner seat for your vehicle and depleting all the ammo before you made it to the fight, or the people who just run off in a random direction during base assaults/defenses.

This is the reason why myself and some other people I play with have started to only count players carrying an outfit tag on our faction when calculating/estimating faction ratios in a fight. We simply made the experience that random blue arrows on the minimap simply do nothing for the outcome of the battle.

Now, I'm sure that if we could tutor/harness these people into doing something more 'productive' they would have an effect on the battlefield without the need of a squad/outfit at all - but there's a distinct lack of ingame tools to do so right now (cue mission system) and the 'community way' of doing this just takes too much effort for too little gain in the current meta-game (where defenses are near pointless and assaults just a giant meatgrinder).

So, in conclusion:
Do people have to play in outfits? No.
Do we need more leadership tools? Definitely.
Does it really matter right now? Not until the strategic 'meta-game' gets an overhaul.

Baneblade · 2013-03-07, 05:55 AM

What gets me is that according to most outfitless people, mine should be perfect for them. But, they will still find a reason to not join. I had a guy who literally couldn't find a reason to not join until I mentioned our website, so he pulled the 'I don't like to register on websites' card. So you can only really come to one conclusion:

Your outfit is not the problem, some people just don't want to join no matter how many of their obstacles you bulldoze.

Qwan · 2013-03-07, 06:13 AM

As a East coast American that play's on the EU server Woodman, I get the best of both world, solo play and outfit. When I get home from work I play with my outfit during there primetime, but as it gets late into the evening (my time) they start logging off. If I dont have homework I usually play a little solo, which to me is fun, relaxing, I usually harras alot running around with my shot gun and ghost hacking bases.

Bocheezu · 2013-03-07, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Rahabib

There are objectives, it doesnt matter if I have some 19 year old screaming at me to take it or not, its obvious what needs to happen to win the battle. If I see a dead person, Ill revive. If I see snipers or HAs around, Ill drop ammo. If I see a damaged tank or a max, Ill fix it. We loners aren't hurting the game at all.

The point of a coordinated outfit is that it does this task much more efficiently. Players are a fixed resource (continental population caps) and the strategic game comes down to how efficiently those players are deployed. I think of this in three forms

1. Firepower/use of vehicles. A tank/plane is generally more powerful than infantry.

2. Spawn point distance to capture point. The closer the spawn point is to the objective, the more time players spend fighting and the less time they spend running.

3. Coordinated attacks. A group that attacks all at once is more efficient than a bunch of solo players that trickle in one at a time.

I think the point of an outfit is to make use of one or more of these. The Gal drop makes heavy use of #3, to the point where you don't even need to worry about #1 or #2, and I view it as potentially the most efficient use of force.

That said, that potential is rarely realized and I feel that most outfits overdrop an objective, and this wastes manpower significantly. A lot of this has to do with lack of information; an outfit really can't scout out everything ahead of time to know how to best deploy their troops. Also, the situation can change significantly from when orders were handed out to when the Gal drop actually occurs. So there will always be inefficiency there, but it will still be much more efficient than the zerg.

And, of course, all this doesn't really mean shit in the big picture because there's no point to capping a continent.

DOUBLEXBAUGH · 2013-03-07, 09:47 AM

I have an outfit of 1, does that count?

maradine · 2013-03-07, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by phungus

No outfit I have ever joined takes even a modicum of interest in A2A ESFs. I've led platoons so I know it's impossible really, so I'm not blaming anyone. Point still remains though that if you want to fly an A2A ESF organized platoons or outfits are not for you unless you enjoy flying around aimlessly above a waypoin who's airspace has already been controlled by your group's AA MAXes.

If you have an outfit and believe you can account for A2A ESFs and have a dedicated purpose for them and are Connery as TR/NC, send an invite to HeckaMcGillicutty or phungus420, I'd love to have a wingman or do the same. As is though I have yet to find any group who realizes ESFs do things other then rocketpods, and I've yet to see a Platoon or Outfit organize beyond "get in vehicle X", "mass here", or play "follow the waypoint" so I'm not holding my breath.

Sorry mate, we play on Helios. Also, Vanu.