Galaxy gunships and drop pods as well as other side grades. - Page 7

Stardouser · 2012-05-13, 12:03 PM

Hm. I think repair stations for air vehicles like that should be at least 35 seconds away, not at most 40, they should space them out to achieve this.

Of course I am talking about offensive actions, if you are defending your own base, it's only natural that a repair point will be handy. Perhaps not every tower should provide air repair.

Immigrant · 2012-05-13, 12:07 PM

Never played PS1 but that level of customization for vehicles sounds amazing! You'll be able to adjust them to your play style and also even though there'll be only dozen of basic types of vehicles these customization will allow for much larger variety of roles. It'll also add a bit of surprise element to combat since you won't be able to tell what certain vehicle is fully capable off by merely glancing at it.

Sabot · 2012-05-13, 12:16 PM

Any good pilot brings his own glue gun, air tower or not! just stick it in the trunk if you're using a mozzy as transport to your prefered sniping spot.

Ceska · 2012-05-13, 12:18 PM

I doubt there won't be trunk anymore in PS2

Figment · 2012-05-13, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by ringring

This thread is so full of Chicken Little.

You don't need any specifics on those stats, just rough assumptions, which you can easily make.

If you dare, fill in some numbers.

Two GGs will ALWAYS have two times the Endurance of one GG.

Two GGs with one gunner will ALWAYS have more damage over time than one GG with three gunners.

The maths are extremely simple and don't need values, it's just algebra.

Endurance (E = Hitpoints/damage absorbed per second*time fired upon till dead = hp/dps*ttk =)
Firepower (F = damage output per second).

Let's assume 4 crew. Let's also assume firepower F is an average for a gunner damage output.

For one GG:

Damage over time = E*3F = 3EF

For two GGs facing the same enemy, damage absorbed per second = 0 as long as the other is taking the beating above. Therefore one GG gets "an extra life". This time two gunners. Thus:

Damage over time = 3E*2F = 6EF

Which is more effective? And yes, it's a simplified equation of reality.

Figment · 2012-05-13, 12:48 PM

Btw the efficiency of one gunner will be higher than that of three gunners as the pilot has it easier angling for one gun than for three (coordination issue).

Efficiency would be defined by effective firing time. I would say an average efficiency of 0,5-0,9 for multi gunners (some on other side may be looking at the sky constantly, which would be an efficiency of 0), while for one gunner it should be 0,8-1,0.

As you can see, you don't need actual numbers. Numbers are about tuning, not core effective gameplay use.

Tikuto · 2012-05-13, 12:51 PM

Instead of Galaxy gunship as a variation, keep Galaxy as its sole purpose of bringing-in troops : respawn station and transport.

Galaxy - single-purpose logistics ship. (Transport, 'tank')
<new ship> - single-purpose attack ship. (Barrage, 'damage-over-time')
Liberator - single-purpose bomber ship. (Surgical, 'damage-dealer')
Mosquito, Reaver, Scythe - multi-purpose combat ships. (Tactical; AA, AV, AI, Other)

Renew ship: Lodestar (not 'Galaxy gunship' which is a transport!!!!!)

Role: Suppressive Barraging. Disperse frontline concentrations with aid from bombers.
Method: High frequency, high-volume non-stop attacks: damage-over-time. With variable defenses (AA projectile, AA area-effect, top-heavy Shield-hardener (anti-orbital strike), etc).

CuddlyChud · 2012-05-13, 01:44 PM

Are GG's really that op? I didn't play when they first came out, but i've been playing pretty regularly for the past 6 months. GG's seem pretty balanced. In a low pop environment, they dominate, but that's just because there's so little AA. I mean, in a low pop environment 2 mbts would also dominate. In larger battles, I feel like the GG is a flying coffin unless they also have AA support to keep wasps/mossies/reavers off them. Overall they seem pretty balanced for a 4 man vehicle.

ringring · 2012-05-13, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Hm. I think repair stations for air vehicles like that should be at least 35 seconds away, not at most 40, they should space them out to achieve this.

Of course I am talking about offensive actions, if you are defending your own base, it's only natural that a repair point will be handy. Perhaps not every tower should provide air repair.

Not every tower provided repair, it was about 1 in 3 and they were spaced out, so there were varying transit times.

Ofc, you may not have an air tower at all on the cont. and if you wanted one you may need to fight for it but remember a your opponents may want it too.

Lastly, you may not have oshur benefit or a linked dropship (these give repair function in bases). If not, go get them.( For the most part of 9 years TR owned Oshur pretty much constantly and defended it fiercely.)

GG's are/were high value targets. If they're around they are bullet magnets.

Stardouser · 2012-05-13, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by ringring

Not every tower provided repair, it was about 1 in 3 and they were spaced out, so there were varying transit times.

Ofc, you may not have an air tower at all on the cont. and if you wanted one you may need to fight for it but remember a your opponents may want it too.

Lastly, you may not have oshur benefit or a linked dropship (these give repair function in bases). If not, go get them.( For the most part of 9 years TR owned Oshur pretty much constantly and defended it fiercely.)

GG's are/were high value targets. If they're around they are bullet magnets.

That gives me an idea. First off, if Oshur causes ALL your bases/towers or whatever to do repairs, I don't agree with that.

But with that said, it would be interesting if there could be a way to turn off, temporarily or more long term, a base's(or even continent's) repair abilities without capturing it - in other words, providing a special ops target- if you're having a problem with aircraft fleeing at 5% health and coming back 100% in 30 seconds, send out spec ops teams to do something about it.

Anything that provides special ops missions away from the main zerg/meatgrind is a plus, imo.

DarkSkyes · 2012-05-13, 03:42 PM

Looking forward to see the the new GG. Always loved them in PS1 always fun seeing all the NC and VS run like rats when one came over the hill hehe.

Synical · 2012-05-13, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

You don't need any specifics on those stats, just rough assumptions, which you can easily make.

If you dare, fill in some numbers.

Two GGs will ALWAYS have two times the Endurance of one GG.

Two GGs with one gunner will ALWAYS have more damage over time than one GG with three gunners.

The maths are extremely simple and don't need values, it's just algebra.

Endurance (E = Hitpoints/damage absorbed per second*time fired upon till dead = hp/dps*ttk =)
Firepower (F = damage output per second).

Let's assume 4 crew. Let's also assume firepower F is an average for a gunner damage output.

For one GG:

Damage over time = E*3F = 3EF

For two GGs facing the same enemy, damage absorbed per second = 0 as long as the other is taking the beating above. Therefore one GG gets "an extra life". This time two gunners. Thus:

Damage over time = 3E*2F = 6EF

Which is more effective? And yes, it's a simplified equation of reality.

The efficiency of the gunners is indeed a very important statistic. However, we have no idea how the turret hardpoints are spread about the hull of the Galaxy, so we cannot make any assumptions about the efficiency. For example, there could be two on each side, one front mounted, and one tail mounted, or there could simply be three on each side. Knowing this information would change the efficiency greatly.

You say two GGs with one gunner a piece will have greater DPS than two GGs with three gunners, but if all three gunners can get an angle on their target depending on the location of the turret hardpoints then this statement no longer holds true.

Another thing that would make a large difference is the possible weapon loadouts of the GG. Can they equip bomb type weapons, mortars, chainguns? We know they can equip chainguns but is that all they can equip? They will be extremely lethal against enemy infantry, but what about enemy armor? Are the chainguns loaded with standard ammunition? Explosive rounds?

Also, you aren't taking their durability, speed, or maneuverability into account. The DPS of the GG could be astronomical, but if they can't stay in the sky for very long long their DPS is not so much of an issue anymore.

Basically what I am trying to say is there are FAR too many variables at this point to make any assumptions about the power of the Galaxy Gunship.

ringring · 2012-05-13, 04:52 PM

@ figgy: I think you said, 2 GG's are better than 1.....
I've just flown a GG in ps1 .... we died faster than I could escape.

@ Stardowser: in Ps1 you could do that .... if you didn't want your enemy to have tech benefit and hence not being able to pull battle tanks nor ground attack aircraft you could go kill the gen in the tech plant and then defend it with your squad. This was/is often done and is fun. I hope an equivalent is in PS2.

I understand in ps2 you can go capture a hex that provides a certain resource. But does that mean the benefit of that resource end immediately or would your enemy have some in the 'bank' as it were? I don't know.

Raka Maru · 2012-05-13, 04:54 PM

I don't understand why the side guns cannot shoot at bigger angles even directly under the GG and a bit to the other side, unless of course it is by design.

And, I like the idea of spec ops taking out air tower repair stations. It would be better of course to just take the tower.

Figment · 2012-05-13, 07:24 PM

@Synical: I said damage over time, not damage per second. The first is a total. Also, you can easily make assumptions for each of those situations and assume some numbers or ranges of numbers. How do you think new aircraft are calculated? Not by knowing numbers in advance! You have to assume something as a basis to work from - iterating and making educated guesses till you get likely numbers. Note that you do this on past experiences to get a quick start. Also you seem to Miss that durability is a synonym of endurance.

Say there are three configurations you can try. The exact type of weapon and damage does not matter at all. Crewnumbers however, do. In fact, for any unit that can have two or more gunners, the example above is true. It goes for the Prowler, it is why we used TWO thunderers or Deliverers with four people and why the Raider failed. It is the same argument for the driver/gunner debacle.

There are very few variables for these units, many irrelevant for the main balancing. I'm used to working with a few hundred...

As said before, ONE GG is not as relevant to balance than multiple. So yes, one GG can be shot down more easily. Especially by VS and TR with their AV. NC... Are screwed.