Why this game needs old bitter vets - Page 7

rTekku · 2012-07-20, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Zekeen

A rather large portion of FPS gamers only stick to COD and/or Halo. It's rather a frightening sight. And by younger generation, I mean people who were too young when PS1 came out and missed it. This is anywhere from 14-20 at the current time.

Yeah, because in games like Battlefield, there is absolutely no need for any teamwork.

Grab a group of your PS1 buddies and try competing against some of the top teams in Battlefield, come back and tell me we know nothing of organizing players and working together.

By the way, i'm 20 and was well aware of Planetside 1 at the time of it's release. Obviously since I was younger and PS1 was subscription based, I could not play it. I was also not a fan of Halo or CoD nor am I a fan of those games today.

GrayWave · 2012-07-20, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Exmortius

ya but scumbag ahdh kiddies probably won't last long in the veteran outfits who know how to attack noobs. they will get cast out pretty quick with the limited outfit sizes. which is why i think this limit is good.

You use "ADHD" like it's something immoral and shameful, and yet you're calling other people scumbags?

Ugh.

Zekeen · 2012-07-20, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Revanmug

You are pretty retard if you put "not needed" with "unable to understand". And if some people don't like to group, you are not going to change their taste. Problem with that?

I love how my opinion to MENTOR, HELP, and TEACH new players not so used to MASSIVE SCALE ORGANIZATION is met with insults at my inability to understand some actually have experience from certain games. But 64 is a far lower number than 399.

Originally Posted by rTekku

Yeah, because in games like Battlefield, there is absolutely no need for any teamwork.

Grab a group of your PS1 buddies and try competing against some of the top teams in Battlefield, come back and tell me we know nothing of organizing players and working together.

By the way, i'm 20 and was well aware of Planetside 1 at the time of it's release. Obviously since I was younger and PS1 was subscription based, I could not play it. I was also not a fan of Halo or CoD nor am I a fan of those games today.

I know some people who don't play games that have any grouping or strategy to them. I'm OBVIOUSLY not saying the whole freaking world younger than me is inexperienced with leadership. There's a hefty number of people who don't do groups or large scale grouping. PS2 has organization and grouping on a scale even larger than BF can have, but I never said BF players have no experience. You're taking a generalization, meant for the large numbers of players outside your gaming range, who haven't really had anything to do with gaming with very large groups. And even BF players will need some guidence at first with some tactics. There are some things PS1 vets know that BF vets don't when it comes to PS2 tactics.

You can all just pretend that ALL players have some super clan structure and know what it's like to play in large groups, or you can understand that many people entering PS2 won't have that much experience with 30 man groups working along side OTHER 30 man groups to take over an objective. I'm just saying vets gotta help these people out, you guys got a problem with helping or something?

Revanmug · 2012-07-20, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Zekeen

I love how my opinion to MENTOR, HELP, and TEACH new players not so used to MASSIVE SCALE ORGANIZATION is met with insults at my inability to understand some actually have experience from certain games. But 64 is a far lower number than 399.

well well look at this. From your own word...

Originally Posted by Zekeen

they're still confused on what we mean by thousands of players, because they've never seen it.

You have no clue how PS2 will be like. Except if hundred is close to thousand now? Who is going to mentor you poor man?

I love the "MASSIVE SCALE ORGANISATION"... Come on, the majority of ps1 were zerging with smaller outfit doing more specific thing around. Or perhaps are you unable to understand your own experience?

rTekku · 2012-07-20, 12:15 PM

We have a problem with your generalizations, Zekeen.

Red Beard · 2012-07-20, 12:19 PM

Argue about something more trivial plz.

Zekeen · 2012-07-20, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Revanmug

You have no clue how PS2 will be like. Except if hundred is close to thousand now? Who is going to mentor you poor man?

I love the "MASSIVE SCALE ORGANISATION"... Come on, the majority of ps1 were zerging with smaller outfit doing more specific thing around. Or perhaps are you unable to understand your own experience?

A LOT of those outfits were friends with each other and worked together until the wierd aftershock stuff came in and many of the outfits left. Before that point it was rather organized. I'm guessing you either just played the game once or saw some video on youtube if you think there organization has always been "zerging".

And with thousands of people, it's the same as hundreds, we'll be broken into large bands working together. It'll still stand at about 30 people, 3 groups of 10, and having to work alongside other platoons of 30. We know how to work along 6 groups of 10 people to take a single objective, and sometimes 9 squads of 10. You're just not seeing the trees because of the forest.

Originally Posted by rTekku

We have a problem with your generalizations, Zekeen.

I've already explained my generalization isn't meant for people like you who organize in a game, or for clans that work among themselves. I'm talking about a large portion of gamers that are involved in solo, individualistic, gaming without working as a team. Take it or leave it, but I'm not argueing over what my "generalizations" mean anymore. You either get what I'm saying or ignore it.

Karrade · 2012-07-20, 12:38 PM

PS1 in its hayday had a lot of combined assaults as it was fun, and people did what was fun to start with. - Lots of mass galdrops for instance.

You can argue if you must whether that is organised or not organised but the result was the same.

Later as time went on, sure there was always a zerg, but the zerg bases usually got flipped by people working together, it will be no different here, the only difference is outfits will be being made from day one, with core people who know how to think tactically in them.

Cooperation = Win, pretty much universally across life. Something schools try to beat out of you into a competitive mindset instead, twisting what Darwin actually said, not survival of the fittest as he is misquoted in saying time after time - survival of the most adaptive, frequently those groups who worked together the best to solve issues.

I don't see how anyone will be in for a rude awakening if they realise teamwork or cooperation beats greater disorganised or chaotic numbers most times, that'll be all they need to see.

NB - I don't see the outfit numbers limit being an issue, if anyone gets that big, it'll be one for mostly air, one for mostly ground, as a very easy example.

Crator · 2012-07-20, 12:56 PM

Guys, I think the conflict that non-PS1 players are having with what PS1 vets are saying here (and some PS1 vets make this mistake too) is that most of the time when they are talking about helping new players they aren't talking about the organized groups of people who are used to team work in other FPS games outside of PS1. And it seems some PS1 vets are perhaps full of themselves if they think only PS1 vets can figure out tactics in a larger scaled games such as PS2 vs. other FPS games. But I'd take the comments with a grain of salt... Because they really only apply to those who are not used to real organization in a FPS (whether it be from PS1 or any other modern FPS game out there)... So really, it's not about PS1 Vets > non-PS1 vets it's more like PS1 vets = non-PS1 vets... Can't we all just get along!?

Rbstr · 2012-07-20, 01:03 PM

This whole argument is dumb.
These things are everywhere. All of this stuff - player organization to their advantage, specialized groups, metagamer circlejerks and bitchfests (as this thread already demonstrates) and so on - is going to happen organically, like it has in every MMO since the beginning of the medium. As long as people are free to chose their associations this will happen. Some will come in as a group from other games, others will form spontaneously, some are going to play solo. That's always they way it goes. PS2 is no different.

The idea of PS1 vets as some kind of unique teamplay-oriented group is silly (and I say that as a ps1 vet and former outfit higher-up).
MMOs are rife with large scale cooperation, many of those players play FPS as well. A PS outfit leader's magically spawning vehicles, 30-man platoons and dozen-or-so map world is nothing compared to the scales of what an EVE commander deals with: Fleets of a thousand plus, non-homogenuous travel mechanics, that fact that war resources have a cost, actual politics instead of already-decided allegiances.
This stuff just isn't that special, guys.

lolroflroflcake · 2012-07-20, 01:13 PM

Really people just need to go into this game willing to learn, vets do have a leg up yes, but if someone refuses to adapt its gonna be just as hard. Everyone will have something new to learn going into the game that is the whole fun of having an updated version its different but its still Planetside, it presents new challenges but in a familiar format.

Although I would like to say this, if there is one group of people that a vet needs to respect for their ability despite not actually playing Planetside 1, its people who were good at Command and Conquer Renegade. It was incredibly similar to the original Planetside and they will have many of the same skills not found in any other FPSes.

Buggsy · 2012-07-20, 05:35 PM

The last people SOE should be listening to are the people that stayed subscribed to PS1 well after BFR's were introduced. They wouldn't know fun if it hit them in the face. Anyone who thinks bouncing around in BFR's and hitting CUD-cheat I-win buttons all day is a good game seriously needs to get their heads checked.

No siree bob. SOE should be listening to players who QUIT PS1 after BFR's came out, like me. Yeah I know it's a convenient argument to make but it's true, all of it, cross my heart hope you die stick a needle in your eye.

Originally Posted by Revanmug

I love the "MASSIVE SCALE ORGANISATION"...

cat herding/zerging. Squads wouldn't know good tactics if it hit them upside the face, unless it's exploiting game mechanics like the Sturmgrenadiers, then they excel.

Originally Posted by Zekeen

That's a higher strategic scale that I'm talking about. I'm talking about the tactics we know from PS1 that won't change that much. Knowing how to organize a squad with different vehicles, Galaxy drops, using infantry with MAX's inside facilities, ect. Squad and combat tactics. These new guys don't understand squad leadership because they never needed it.

Allowing galaxies to spawn infantry, and infantry to spawn infantry isn't going to improve squad tactics, it's just going to make them lazier and dumber. My sniper rifle awaits.

Originally Posted by GuyFawkes

ps1 had more than its fair share of veteran douche bags, trolling and flaming over the years

ps2 will add to this with new blood within the ranks I'm sure.

Landtank · 2012-07-20, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by Buggsy

Allowing galaxies to spawn infantry, and infantry to spawn infantry isn't going to improve squad tactics, it's just going to make them lazier and dumber. My sniper rifle awaits.]

How can you even begin to make this assumption. Squad spawning isn't evil, or bad for that manner, if done in the correct way.

Buggsy · 2012-07-20, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by Landtank

How can you even begin to make this assumption. Squad spawning isn't evil, or bad for that manner, if done in the correct way.

There is no correct way for infantry spawning infantry. Infantry should never spawn infantry.

Landtank · 2012-07-20, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by Buggsy

There is no correct way for infantry spawning infantry. Infantry should never spawn infantry.

There is a correct way, it's called drop podding in. I'm in favor of a beacon system that can be destroyed by enemies, it creates a front line and allows it to be pushed back without some random guy hanging behind enemy lines.

Anyways, not the right thread! My bad.

BFR's aren't terrible now, they are actually pretty fun, but in the beginning they were awful machines of subscription-killing power!