Free Speech or Hate Symbol? - Page 7

afex · 2003-02-19, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by Fire_Monkey
Afex, I would begin to listen to your argument if you deceased from flaming me. Since you obviouisly don't want to prove your point you can continue to flame me all you like. Tough skin and all that eh?

i've already proved my point awhile ago that your whole basis of logic in this discussion is based on ignorance. and you help me prove it with every post.

i'm just biding time right now and having fun until you prove me wrong.

afex · 2003-02-19, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by Lonehunter187
When I said it was heritage, not hate, I meant that the confederate flag was not designed for hate. What I mean by hate is racism. The south had slaves. So did the north, but they called them indentured servants. Where they gave them a ride to America in exchange for 5 to 10 years of work. The rebel flag was just that, a flag for rebels who didn't believe in the north's beliefs. They just wanted each state to govern themselves freely and things of that sort. I live in West Virginia. Full of rednecks and rebels. Every time an african-american person sees someone wearing a shirt with the rebel flag on they call that person a cracker and say he hates black people. I know somebody this happened to and his great grand pappy died in the civil war fighting for the south. He was proud of his heritage.

ding ding ding.

thats why the call it the "rebel flag" not the "i hate black people flag"

Lonehunter · 2003-02-19, 06:40 PM

Thank you afex

OneManArmy · 2003-02-19, 06:52 PM

ok, now i understand the heritage thing a bit more but I still dont fully get it. do they wear the flag because they want to get rid of our goverment and let each state govern independantly? do they wear the flag because they had a realative fight in the civil war? and if its the civil war thing do they even have proof? hell most of the time I see someone wearing it or displaying it somewhere its cuz they think its "cool" it makes them some sort of "rebel badass".

Ok, lets forget about the whole slavery thing, slaves were everywhere, its just that they were a lot more profitable in the south wehre the plantations were, truth be known there would be just as many slaves up north but you couldn't grow S*** up north like you could in the south back in the day.

if the confederate flag is heritage, isnt that a bit like georgia or similar country displaying the old USSR flag?? The confederacy no longer exsists. In that respects doesnt the confederate flag show disrespect to our current Goverment and flag?

Fire_Monkey · 2003-02-19, 07:30 PM

I see that we cannot come to an agreement. I am going to cease my posting on this thread but first I'll end with this. If you continue to support displaying the confederate flag, you will be viewed by most people as a close-minded, ignorant, racist; along with me. Make your choice, i have no problem with what you choose to display as long as it does not insight violence, and represent something disusting such as racism. I hope that you will choose to show your southern pride in other ways than that of a symbol known to many as a severe insult.

Best Wishes,

Fire

Bighoss · 2003-02-19, 07:54 PM

I personally feel we really have no right to critisize the past and other cultures if they believe in racism and slavery. OUR moral values say its wrong but it doesn't mean it is. Nothing is wrong or right but is just viewed by others so once again everything we do and say is meaningless

DAMNIT I NEED TO STOP DEPRESSING MYSELF

OneManArmy · 2003-02-20, 12:06 AM

eat cheese... that cheers me up

Lexington_Steele · 2003-02-20, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by afex
theres that magic word, "have".

i dont "have" to use witty comments in my posts, i "choose" to. if i needed to flame to make a point, then thats all my posts would be composed of.

......

wait! omg! it totally looked like thats all i said when you quoted me! wow man, you rock at forums!

Were you trying to flame me there? Good effort Afex, I am sure you will do better next time.

Discordja · 2003-02-20, 12:59 AM

a recent study (i'll find it again if i can) revealed that the US is the 18th more free country in relation to freedom of the press and the individual.

sweden was number 1! ~

MrVicchio · 2003-02-20, 06:23 AM

Yes, and look who wrote it.

The USA was also ranked down on the Human Rights list a year or so ago....

Bighoss · 2003-02-20, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by OneManArmy
eat cheese... that cheers me up

cheese is offensive to me because asian people can't digest it very well cuz they are all lactos intolerant and I feel that we want them to eat it so that's racist

.

its actually a weird adaption that we're naturally not supposed to drink cow milk.

Lexington_Steele · 2003-02-20, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by MrVicchio
Yes, and look who wrote it.

The USA was also ranked down on the Human Rights list a year or so ago....

I don't see 18th as necessarily a bad thing. There are certain freedoms that are not included on that survey I am sure.

I would bet that regulation on polution equates to a less free society in the survey. So the more environmental protection laws we have, the worse we would do. I am in favor of many rights, but I am not so sure I am in favor of a person's right to ruin the environment.

I am also sure that freedom from pollution would not appear on that survey.

Personally, I love my country and don't want to move anywhere else regardless of what some survey says. (depending on the Patriot Act mk 2)

Sweeden can keep their #1 ranking for all that I care.

MrVicchio · 2003-02-20, 04:15 PM

What the heck was that drivel about?
With Freedom Comes Responsibility. You seem to not appreciate that fact.

Lexington_Steele · 2003-02-20, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by MrVicchio
What the heck was that drivel about?
With Freedom Comes Responsibility. You seem to not appreciate that fact.

I do appreciate the fact that reponsability comes with freedom.

However there is a question that you have yet to satisfactorally answer for me:
What do you do to someone who continually acts irresponsibly with their freedoms, especially when these actions have potent negative effects on other people?

The answer I seem to get from you is to do nothing to that individual. I don't see that as satisfactory.

No offense, but you have no clue as to what I appreciate or don't appreciate.

Arshune · 2003-02-20, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by Lonehunter187
The south had slaves. So did the north, but they called them indentured servants. Where they gave them a ride to America in exchange for 5 to 10 years of work.

The reason slaves are called slaves is because they have no choice in the matter and are not compensated for their labor in any way. The sum of money for transport to America back then was quite high, not quite worth 5-10 years of labor, but still significant. So an indentured servant is technically compensated labor.

The thing I don't see is this: why would anyone even want to fly the confederate flag in the first place? The South stood against the Union in the Civil War, and the Union is essentially just a word for the United States. They were defeated even though Union commanders made several key mistakes. They based their economy on agriculture and didn't try to modernize. And yes, they supported slavery, which holds that a human being can be considered property. Their flag is not a symbol of hate, however it is a symbol of an inneffective government that was crushed and refolded into the United States long ago. Who can say they want to stand for the same things the confederacy stood for? Yes it's heritage, but not all heritage is something to be proud of. If you have an ancestor who fought in the civil war and want to remember them, why not carry a relic from them (like a war medal or something) around instead of a flag that doesn't even have anything to do with the particular person?