Command

[basti]

Originally Posted by Hamma

We have talked a ton about a voting system in various threads and always end up at the same end point, voting leads to asshat's being in charge and more asshats keeping them in charge.

These days VS got like 50% Cr5s of the online players. Just do a /who cr5 on the cont with the fight, and it will pretty much show the same 50% for NC and TR. So, its save to say, half of the played characters are CR5s. Its quite a number, a big number.
Yet, i dont see constant counter globals these days. I see useful globals, i see short chats in /c about the next target. Ofc there is random crap, alot more than back in the day, but it only rarley becomes a problem.

Right now, VS CR5s got several partys within them.
1.Outfits - The crap talkers, yet effective - They talk BS in /c sometimes, often enough completly random topics that have nothign to do with leading, yet they get stuff done. YOu can't count on them 100% of the time, but if they are free, you can be sure that they will go for the resecures and other coordinated stuff.

2. The Sane - People who just try to exploit the situation to the empires advantage. They want fun, big battles, they want to win. They get the AMS, call for more ams, call for whatever stuff. Most forgot/never saw the old ways of Maxcrashes/Magrider collums/Reaver Raids, or just think they dont work and never try them. While most of them work alone, you can count on them to support something if they can.

3. Batsteg - Playing cool, being a fool. He ignores everything other people say, and just thinks he is the lead guy who knows everything and gets everyone to follow him. These days he get TKed quite alot for that.

4. The quited. people who got CR5, but never talk on /c / only talk off topic.



Lets put it simple:

1. Outfits that work mainly for fun, but support the empire if they arent doing something else already
2. People who want to lead and try it day after day
3. Asshats who just annoy everyone and quickly get hated by everyone
4. People who have no interrest in leading and just got CR5 for the tools it provides.

If you put that into a voting:
1. Many votes on many different people, they always want to push themself. Maybe several outfits work together to push one guy.
2. A few votes on one Person.
3. a few votes on another person.
4. Many votes for the Outfits and the Sane CR5.

Thats a fact, plain and simple. It is that way, because history showed us that in SEVERAL THOUSAND YEARS OF HUMAN SOCIETY! Its not made up, its a fact. Nobody wants to be the asshat everyone hates. Only the asshats themself going to vote for the big asshat leader. The asshats wont ever take lead, ever. It just doesnt work.

Btw, this is a whorst case scenario. It cant be worse. This would happen if almost everybody hates everybody, and thats not going to happen.

What will happen is that The outfits team up with the sane Commanders. They will team up and choose their best guy to lead them all. Just ask Old time Werner VS players who Enrico was, they surley will tell you storys of a a great CR5. The quite CR5s will also just support the sane CR5s mostly, simply because they rather want to win than getting Zeroed all day. The Asshats would simply be completly overpowered, just like it was always, at any time, during Planetsides lifetime.

[I SandRock]

CR5s on VS do try at the moment but none of them seem to possess a lot of tactical insight. Like we set ourselves up to get sandwiched right up the butt and face by TR and NC real nice today on Amerish. And that's following the CR5's calls. Could've seen it coming from a mile away. It seems CR5's at the moment just look at whatever base looks easiest to cap and call for that.

[kaffis]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

I would personally like to see CEP and command ranks ditched entirely. In its place, a more fluid system with a simple mechanic.. Players choosing their commanders. Players would choose their squad leader. Squad leaders would choose their platoon leader. Platoon leaders would choose battalion leader, etc, and the more players you had under your command, the more access to command tools and chats you receive.

I like this notion, but I don't think it needs to preclude CEP and command rank. I think that your idea here is a great way to hand out command *tools*, but command rank (and the CEP to get it) can still be useful in helping people decide whose command to submit themselves to. Given two strangers I've never heard of, I can look at the interface/uniform, and see that one is CR1 and the other's CR5. The CR5 guy's got more experience leading, so perhaps I should try him first. Now, this does require gaining CR to be non-trivial and less abusable, but see below. Even if you don't want people to assume the CR5 guy is a better commander (in which case, you don't put that info on the interface), I think CEP is still a nice incentive to encourage people to take on the burden of command, and things like the uniform upgrades are a nice little recognition for people who have spent time doing so.

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

I would also like to see more tools at the commanders disposal, tools that entice players to do what is directed of them. For instance, the continent commander would be able to call a primary base, and aside from being highlighted on the map, there are actual benefits to fighting there, such as improved BEP rates. Lower ranked commanders could place attack/defend areas on more local positions. For example a squad or platoon leader could place a marker at the backdoor, and players under his command would get bonuses for defending or attacking that. They could also place bounties on players or structures, that pay out BEP on destruction, to entice players to take it out.

More carrot! Less screaming!

I do really like this motto, and the idea of putting bounties out on players, structures, and vehicles. I'd say the bounties should be automatically valued by the game, though, based on how "important" the game deems the target (busy AMSes get a higher value than ones that haven't spawned anybody in 10 minutes, or whatever; players on a 10-player kill streak are worth a bigger bounty than players who've died 10 times in the last 15 minutes, etc) in order to prevent abuse and farming by setting high value bounties on trivial targets.

Originally Posted by Hamma

I know that I have drawn a few lude images on teh map.

My favorite drawing was the sea monster captioned "Here there be dragons..."

Originally Posted by Aractain

nor do you want people to grind out cep (oh yeah guys I can totally command I sat afk in a base while squad leader for a while!)

I think this could totally dovetail well with CutterJohn's notion of designating objectives. I'm a squad leader. I've got a platoon leader who has designated a base to assault. I set my "carrot beacon," if you will, to one of the doors on that base. My squad now goes to fight at the location I designated (and, by proxy, fighting for the base that my platoon leader designated, so my following the platoon leader's orders is rewarding the platoon leader, too), reaping the benefit of the carrot beacon's bonus BEP in the process. Now, instead of me just getting CEP for afking while my squad took the base, I should get CEP for the BEP they've earned by following my orders to fight at the carrot beacon.

This way, my CEP advancement is tied to people following my leadership and orders, not something as abusable as simple squad leadership. If people don't follow my orders (ignoring my stupidly placed carrot beacon, for instance), I'm not rewarded with CEP because I'm not competently leading them.

[wildcat140679]

I don't believe there is true full proof system that will separate the good leaders from the bad, you will always have a few rotten apples among your ranks, no matter what. Voting systems and alike can be abused by big outfits, in the end the player base will follow the good and ignor the bad.

Those dedicated to leading, will stick out from the bad, even if senseless orders are barked and an argument takes places in the command channels for every one to hear, but believe me, people will pick there side and follow the orders that makes sense to them and these often come from the good leaders, the bad end up on the ignore lists.


Planetside offered besides the needed tools that made it possible to gather information and be a better commander/leader to assist in steering the troops. But it also had the EMP Jammer Blast and Orbital Strike, this attracted many players that showed litte interest to leading but only in those key utilities that brought firepower to the battlefield. It improved there ability to kill.

Many CR5 might feel stept on there toes, for me saying this. If so, ask your self this, would you have gone through the effort, time and hard work to get to CR5, if it didn't have an EMP Jammer Blast and Orbital Strike? If so, then consider your self one of the better leader out there and your not one of those hungry for power to kill.

Command ranks should have access to information tools and more utilities that improve there leading abilities, not the kind that kills, that only attract the wrong kind of players.


I'm not saying EMP Jammer Blast and OS should have been removed from the game, the have there use. There access to them however should be team based effort in there use, not executed by a one man army. Limiting there use to prevent them from tipping the scales of balance as they frequently do now in planetside.

How I don't know, thats good for an other topic to disuse. But keeping them out of the command rank system to attract those that want to lead and not those that want power is a good start one way or an other.

Having command rank level system is a good basis if you combine it with point decay over time. This separates the dedicated, those who want to lead from those who dont want to.

For a long time I considered my self a grunt, a soldier who follows orders and doesn't give them. Almost always joined existing squads or got invited to them, but rarely created them or wanted to be squad leader, yet still I made CR2 with with out any interest for commanding.

I'm not really surprised to see that we have so many high command ranked after so many years.

How fast this Command Rank decay should be I don't know, but loosing CR1, 10,000 CEP points over a period of 14 days should be manageable for your Joe average wannabe leader.

Last time I set out to gain Command Experience Points, I got on average 1500~2500 CEP points per base cap that a an average amount of fighting/resistance and was CR2 after several battle sessions, don't know if this is still the case, the decay rate might need some tweaking

Once you reach CR5 you should be able to keep on gaining more Command Experience Points so you don't drop back to CR4 the next day because you lost an x amount of command points. (No point decay for inactive accounts either)

A 3 point leader ship certification that slows down the point decay might be worth having for players who want to lead and command, but has less time on there hands, the weekend warriors.

I'm pretty sure there are a few other ways to enhance the Command Rank System, but I'm very sure that not having the EMP Jammer Blast and the OS in the command rank system would filter out a lot players who have little interest of leading.