Definition of 'Selling Power'

[cellinaire]

Originally Posted by Baron

Here is why they are doing a cash shop versus a subscription:

1) The cash shop will make more money

Period.

We can discuss some of the psychology behind purchasing habits, impulse buying, microtransactions, etc... if you guys want. However the cash shop will allow for more players exposed to be the game and ultimately more revenue generated, per user, than a monthly subscription.

...And the games like Planetside need to have many many players in it's game world anytime to be interesting, so F2P isn't THAT bad deal for SOE I guess. We will see whether SOE is going to piss off playerbase once again or not

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by MasterChief096

Yes, its hardly noticeable. When I ran into a BR6 with a JH and a medkit and I had a JH and a medit and we were both rexo, it did not matter that I healed myself 20 seconds ago, or that I bailed out of a mossie, or that I could OS if I was outside. When that encounter happened (provided neither of us had any help) it was my skill versus his skill.

Enh targetting? PShield? Darklight against reserve cloakers?

Originally Posted by MasterChief096

I did not have a 5 dollar weapon attachment that gave my JH an advantage over his.

I don't think anyone's suggested selling weapon upgrade attachments. "Sidegrade" seems to be the word of the day.

[MasterChief096]

Originally Posted by Vancha

Enh targetting? PShield? Darklight against reserve cloakers?


I don't think anyone's suggested selling weapon upgrade attachments. "Sidegrade" seems to be the word of the day.

Someone explain to me the difference between a sidegrade that increases your weapons RoF by 4% versus a weapon attachment that does the same thing?

Or a sidegrade that reduces weapon CoF by 3% versus an attachment that does the same thing?

It doesn't matter if what you buy in the cash shop can be attained in the game:

1. It takes you longer to get it in-game
2. You are still selling power in the cash shop. "We will by no means sell power in the cash shop."

[FastAndFree]

Originally Posted by MasterChief096

Someone explain to me the difference between a sidegrade that increases your weapons RoF by 4% versus a weapon attachment that does the same thing?

Or a sidegrade that reduces weapon CoF by 3% versus an attachment that does the same thing?

I think it boils down to:

X% increased ROF <--- Upgrade
X% increased ROF, Y% worse COF <--- Sidegrade

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by FastAndFree

I think it boils down to:

X% increased ROF <--- Upgrade
X% increased ROF, Y% worse COF <--- Sidegrade

Say the player bought a gun like this:

10% increased Damage
+10% CoF

This gun will have a major advantage in CQC. That is not a sidegrade, that is a different gun, more powerful that they'd be selling.

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by MasterChief096

It doesn't matter if what you buy in the cash shop can be attained in the game:

1. It takes you longer to get it in-game
2. You are still selling power in the cash shop. "We will by no means sell power in the cash shop."

I doubt they expected their renaming of "subscription" to "cash shop" would cause us to define "selling power" so stringently.

You state you didn't notice a difference between reserves and subscription players in Planetside, well guess what? With the difference the skill trees will probably make, I very much expect that even if they did sell weapons, the people who'd spent time to get them and the people who'd spent money to get them would be indistinguishable. Meanwhile, SOE would have extra money to improve both my and your playing experience.

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Say the player bought a gun like this:

10% increased Damage
+10% CoF

This gun will have a major advantage in CQC. That is not a sidegrade, that is a different gun, more powerful that they'd be selling.

Indeed, but say the player bought a gun like this:

0.001% Increased Damage
+0.001% CoF

This gun wouldn't even warrant existence.

Oh look, I do believe we've just discovered the flaw in pulling values out our ass for a cash shop that we don't even know is going to sell any weapons.

[Firefly]

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

The EVE community was/is angry because CCP are spending all of their time and money from EVE creating $70 virtual eyeware and making games that aren't EVE.

Yes, because CCP is a company that should focus strictly on EVE instead of, oh I don't know, developing games because it's a game developer.

Perish the thought.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Say the player bought a gun like this:

10% increased Damage
+10% CoF

This gun will have a major advantage in CQC. That is not a sidegrade, that is a different gun, more powerful that they'd be selling.

This gun will have a major disadvantage in medium range combat. That is not a sidegrade, that is a different gun, less powerful. Are we really going to accept them selling weakness?

[basti]

All the debate, hmm.

Lets have a simple idea here: Sony, i know you guys read, so forward this to your marketing guys:

Instead of just going and sell stuff at the shop, tell us what you want to sell before you actually do it. This way you get feedback before you accidently put something overpowered into the shop and generate a rage.

[CutterJohn]

Its the forums. They could announce they are giving away free kittens and people will bitch.

[Bags]

Fuck, now I need to buy kitty litter.

Slap in the face, SOE.

[Gandhi]

I don't mind selling convenience, other than cosmetic changes that's about the only thing you can safely sell in a store without players going berserk. What I hate is the proposed random drop system. It makes no sense in the Planetside context (don't even try work it into the game lore) and basically requires a trading system.

I'd rather spend resources or BEP or something to access weapon variants and sidegrades than just have them randomly "drop" at the rate of x per week.

Also saw the EVE store mentioned, it really has nothing to do with this. People were upset about that for a number of reasons (the lack of communication, the outrageous prices, the leaked internal memos), but none of those things are being repeated here (I hope...)

[NapalmEnima]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Say the player bought a gun like this:

10% increased Damage
+10% CoF

This gun will have a major advantage in CQC. That is not a sidegrade, that is a different gun, more powerful that they'd be selling.

That is a gun that is more powerful in a SPECIFIC SITUATION (CWC), and less powerful outside it.

We don't know how many guns a given loadout will be able to carry. It may be "one". So if you can lull that player into a situation where their weapon isn't so potent, you've turned the tables.

Yes, a base defender fighting in corridors will probably want to go heavy on the CQC-style weapons, and with good reason. But even within the bases of PS1, there are places where you can engage the enemy at 15+ meters were CQC-style weapons are even or weaker than assault rifles.

And given the shortened Time To Kill of PS2, I don't think we'll notice much of a difference, really. If someone toting the original version of that weapon gets the drop on someone with the CQC version, they're still going to win. The one or two shots they take might hurt a little more, but the other guy's still pushin' up the daisies.

Not particularly worried.

Oh, I admit: The Proof Is In The Pudding. I could be wrong, and the only way to be sure is to Actually Play. I eagerly await the opportunity to be proven wrong.

[Raymac]

Originally Posted by MasterChief096

It doesn't matter if what you buy in the cash shop can be attained in the game

I'd have to vigorously disagree with this statement. I'd also like to say if you are committed to this idea, then you are likely bound to be disappointed. So start preparing yourself for that eventuality.

MasterChief, you really need to understand that for PS2 to be successful at all, it must have a f2p option.

It's simple to understand by just looking at the percentage of fps games that have a subscription. The number is so low, that you need to realize that to attract the amount of players PS2 needs to simply survive, it must be f2p. That's the bottom line.

So since it must have a f2p option, you really have to sell more than just vanity items because in order for PS2 is generate income (which is the point of any product) then the sheer volume of vanity items needed would mean that everyone would be running around looking like Lady Gaga.

Now the question sitll remains, what exactly will be sold? It seems the devs still don't have the answer to that question, but they have committed many times to not sell power. Though it seems you disagree, if they are selling something that you can acquire or unlock without having to buy it, then they are not "selling power".

[Sirisian]

Ignoring the obvious unbacked opinions you're making about F2P being the only way I'll look at this:

Originally Posted by Raymac

Now the question sitll remains, what exactly will be sold? It seems the devs still don't have the answer to that question, but they have committed many times to not sell power. Though it seems you disagree, if they are selling something that you can acquire or unlock without having to buy it, then they are not "selling power".

They're playing off the word upgrade and trying to call them "sidegrades" so that people like yourself will be fooled into thinking they aren't going to sell power. It will start to make sense when you realize how their system works. You'll play for 10 hours to get a sidegrade that gives you a minor advantage. However you can just purchase this sidegrade instantly if you wish. Is that selling power? Personally I think it is. If I can jump into the game on day one and throw money to gain an advantage in certain situations it's selling power. I'll have this advantage 24/7 and you'll get it every once in a while if you want to use resources for that instead of something else.

The only possible way to keep this game on a level playing field for everyone and remove any incentive is to keep the cash shop for only aesthetic items. SOE knows this F2P system won't work so they're doubling back and realizing they need to sell incentives to players without them realizing it. They're a business so it's hard to blame them for their decision, but you're deluding yourself if you think this sacrifice will make the game better in the long run.