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PSU: As cool as a divot.
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2011-10-01, 12:21 PM
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[Ignore Me] #91 | |||
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Contributor Major General
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__________________
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2011-10-01, 01:02 PM
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[Ignore Me] #92 | ||
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Colonel
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God works by written, defined laws. Known as the Holy Bible. He doesn't just randomly heal "some broad's eyes." I found out how to apply his healing power to someone who would receive it, and having learned, I applied it, and she was healed.
Even Jesus Christ, when he was here, in person, didn't heal everyone everywhere. He walked by people who were sick for decades, and they didn't get healed. God working on the behalf of man is dependent on man learning and applying how to get that to happen from God's Word. To blame Boeing because you can't fly 787's, when they have courses, flight schools, etc. that you can take is just as ignorant as blaming God for people being harmed. He doesn't just randomly do things. He does things according to strict guidelines, and by learning how to conform to what is necessary to receive what God offers to everyone is incumbent on us. He gave us his Word. If you discard that, or misunderstand it, or fail to practice it, then you don't get the results. How DOES God prevent children from being molested? Well, again, people having children in the first place who are married to the right person is a great start. How do you marry the right person? The one God knows is perfect for you? You have to be led by the Spirit of God. How do you be led by the Spirit of God? Know God's Word and practice it. Having done that, you then have to listen to his leadings on an individual and daily basis. He will warn you not to let your child go here or there, and to engage in habits that make child security easier to attain. But, you would have to be obedient enough to even be in a position to hear when he speaks. Further, the child molester him/herself: If he or she would obey the Bible, they wouldn't be molesting children, and wouldn't even be thinking and dwelling on such thoughts. As I said, it is obedience to God's Word and his spirit that leads to victory in life. Take tobacco, for example. I think it is bad to traffic in tobacco. I don't work for places that sell it, I don't buy or sell it myself, and I try to get others to quit using it, or not start in the first place. By not using it myself, I am not going to influence others, even unwittingly, to think it is acceptable. However, if someone is making 100,000 dollars a year marketing tobacco products, he is part of the problem. If he would obey the Bible, he wouldn't be trafficking in tobacco. Or harmful drugs either. Is God to blame when people die from emphysema? "Why didn't God heal that man of lung cancer?" He told him not to smoke his entire life. If you stand at the side of the road and tell people continually not to drive over that bridge that's out, and they laugh at you as being some kind of weirdo and drive over the bridge that's out and die, now you are at fault because you didn't succeed in convincing them to not be stupid? If you do things God's way, it works. It includes general knowledge of what he said in his Word, and specific knowledge about what he is saying, right now, specifically, to you, by his Spirit. There is such a tangled web of disaster that follows sins that it would take more books than people could read in a lifetime to explain all the negative effects of any particular sin they like to practice. Simpler to just say "Do not steal." If you do not steal, you do not start a domino-effect chain reaction of negative consequences. If you don't commit adultery, you avoid a different set of negative consequences. If you don't traffic in tobacco or other harmful drugs, you avoid more. But, it's people sinning against God, themselves, and others that brings negative results. And God is not required to follow you around and slap your hand every time you reach for a child porn magazine or download, a cigarette, or a murder weapon, if you have rejected his counsel as laid out in his Word. He gives his Word, you reject that, then walk up and down, crowing about how God is so nonexistent, irrelevant, and stupid, pointing at the bad results of a world full of people who disobey God just like you do, and claim that your bad results prove that God sucks. People not doing things God's way and thus suffering bad consequences doesn't prove God doesn't exist anymore than jumping off a building and dying as a result of the fall proves that God doesn't exist. God operates by laws, they are laid out in his Word, and rejecting his Word is the first step towards having a disastrous life. And, for the children that are victims of the lack of diligence on the part of their parents: yes, they are innocent. Adults have the responsibility to care for children. If they shirk that responsibility, such as by having children they are in no position whatsoever to be able to properly care for (average ghetto anywhere) then they have abused their authority, and, as usual, the innocent suffer for fools who reject God's ways. However, in eternity, we are rewarded with whatever we did in this life. Children who die all go to heaven, and heaven is forever. The stupid adults that abused them, by omission or commission, will, if they did not repent of their sins, end up in hell now and later the lake of fire. Everlasting fire was not prepared for man, it was prepared for the devil and his angels. If man rejects God, he dooms himself to a place that has as little of God's influence as possible, along with Satan and his angels. God does not reject man. Man rejects God. And the world we see is a result of that rejection. Last edited by Traak; 2011-10-01 at 01:06 PM. |
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2011-10-01, 01:18 PM
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[Ignore Me] #93 | |||
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Major General
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2011-10-01, 01:28 PM
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[Ignore Me] #94 | ||
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Major General
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There's no doubt that legitimate religious organizations do teach good values and how to live a safe and prosperous life in today's world. That doesn't necessarily mean that those good values and teachings have to come from a religious organization. Or even have to be taught under the threat of damnation.
Last edited by Crator; 2011-10-01 at 01:31 PM. |
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2011-10-01, 02:33 PM
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[Ignore Me] #95 | |||
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PSU Staff
Wiki Ninja |
 Science and secularism has lead most people away from such things that are written in god's "rulebook". Believers conveniently ignore the parts that don't sound good any longer and only look at the lovey lovey bits. |
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2011-10-01, 06:00 PM
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[Ignore Me] #96 | ||||||||||||||
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Contributor Lieutenant General
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__________________
Post at me bro.  |
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2011-10-01, 06:16 PM
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[Ignore Me] #97 | |||
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Sergeant
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There really is no point arguing with a religious nutjob. |
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2011-10-01, 09:15 PM
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[Ignore Me] #99 | ||||||||||||||
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Sergeant
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I appreciate that Sobekeus has done much of the work for me, but Traak has put so much on the table i just have to get my two cents in.
You said X is true. I said, but if X is true, Y is true. You said, but Y is ridiculous, Y cant be true. So i say to you now, surely X isnt true. (X = claim that God is responsible for all good things that cant yet be explained) (Y = claim that God is responsible for all evil thing that cant yet be explained) If the reasoning that shows X is true is solid, it must also show Y is true.
I know this is outrageously long and thanks if you read it all, but Traak is putting so much on the table, we just have to point out where he goes wrong in his logic. I also apoligize if this seems incoherent in any way or there are miss spellings, this is the 3rd time ive written this out since the last 2 times it claimed i wasnt logged in and said it couldnt post what i had written, the first 2 posts i wrote were better i assure you (its now 2:22 a.m. in England and i cba anymore). i hope you appreciate the effort i go to for you Traak 
Last edited by MadPenguin; 2011-10-01 at 09:23 PM. |
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2011-10-02, 12:48 AM
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[Ignore Me] #101 | ||||||
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Colonel
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From the site http://carm.org/statistics-homosexual-promiscuity 28% of homosexual men had more than 1000 partners: "Bell and Weinberg reported evidence of widespread sexual compulsion among homosexual men. 83% of the homosexual men surveyed estimated they had had sex with 50 or more partners in their lifetime, 43% estimated they had sex with 500 or more partners; 28% with 1,000 or more partners. Bell and Weinberg p 308." (exodusglobalalliance.org/ishomosexualityhealthyp60.php) From the site http://www.avert.org/usa-transmission-gender.htm The HIV transmission route leading to the most AIDS diagnosis in 2009 was male-to-male sexual contact, followed by heterosexual contact and injection drug use. Note that this is the transmission route leading to the most AIDS diagnosis. Not the route that leads to the highest RATE. So, despite being about 2% of the population or so, they have the majority of the AIDS infection cases. It isn't homophobic to note this. Is this enough tangible, reliable evidence that homosexuality doesn't work as well as heterosexuality?
I did the same for a guys knee at church one day. It was healed right there, and years later, I saw him in some shopping mall, he was all smiles, said his knee had never again bothered him after that day. This is something all believers in Christ can do, if they learn how. It isn't some special spooky anointing available for $9.95 and a packet of my special anointing oil, people are standing by to take your order. Again, I am not asking you to believe this. I have heard the litany of reasons why it couldn't possibly be God. Don't bother. You only have yourself to convince. Another time, I had a friend whose girlfriend was suffering neck pains. He brought her to me because he had heard I did this sort of thing. She didn't believe it would work. I laid hands on her, commanded the devil to get his hands off her neck in the name of Jesus, commanded her neck to be healed in the name of Jesus, in a casual voice, and said "Now, move your neck around." She was turned her head toward her boyfriend to tell him how stupid this was. However, when she turned her head to pronounce her opinion on how stupid what I did was, she realized she was healed. Now, realistically, even if I had x-rays, MRI's and a panel of expert witnesses, is it really going to make you say "Wow, that God stuff must be real."? People suffering in the world in spite of an omnipotent God is the result of the fact that said omnipotent God delegated authority on Earth to mankind. To say he allows suffering, or excess suffering, as you said, is accurate, in the sense that once he has delegated authority, he can't just take the reins back unless a man has invited him to do so, because that is violating man's will. God did not heal that girl's neck until someone did something about it as instructed in God's word. Healing and such are not a big, spooky deal, not some exclusive-club membership thing available only to the very holy, the very rich, or the very spiritually weird. It works, just like a 787 taking off works, by set, defined laws. You find out the laws, you apply them, it works.
From http://thefatherlessgeneration.wordp...om/statistics/ Statistics 63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census) – 5 times the average. 90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes – 32 times the average. 85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Center for Disease Control) 80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes –14 times the average. (Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26) 71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (National Principals Association Report) |
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2011-10-02, 01:13 AM
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[Ignore Me] #102 | ||||||
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Colonel
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Jesus works, as he did when he was here in person, through the common people, such as Simon Peter. Churches have people in varying degrees of imperfection. What was God supposed to do? Only select billionaire supermodels with an IQ of 200 or above, and shun everyone else? |
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2011-10-02, 01:23 AM
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[Ignore Me] #103 | |||
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Colonel
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Since Jesus has come, we have the New Testament, and it has far different rules, because unlike Old Testament times, people in this age can become new on the inside, as Jesus described it: "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." In the Old Testament, everyone who was an adult was spiritually dead, separated from God in their spirit. No one could be born again, on the inside, become a new man in their heart=spirit. (not the blood pump, the spirit man inside). We are not living in the time of the Old Covenant, so there are things in it that have been superseded by the New Covenant. We are no longer restricted to not eating certain things, we can't have more than one wife, we are commanded to not only not murder, but not to hate. The world is different with the presence of people who are now bona fide children of God than it was before being born again was not available. And with that difference, new rules apply. |
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2011-10-02, 01:36 AM
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[Ignore Me] #104 | ||
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Colonel
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I note you completely fail to provide statistics regarding lesbians, since that would render your hypothesis invalid, considering they have lower rates of hiv and std infection than heterosexuals.
And I note you've healed eyesight, a sore knee, and a sore neck. Don't hold back, lets see something big. Find a veteran and regrow his leg. You do that and put it on video, and I'll believe. That would be some serious fucking evidence, which, considering you like to cite studies, you should be a fan of now. Or are you just going to stick to healing ambiguous stuff so you can keep believing you did something and not have to face the fact that you may be wrong? |
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2011-10-02, 01:55 AM
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[Ignore Me] #105 | ||
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Major General
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American Cancer Society: Faith Healing
Although it is known that a small percentage of people with cancer experience remissions of their disease that cannot be explained, available scientific evidence does not support claims that faith healing can actually cure physical ailments. When a person believes strongly that a healer can create a cure, a “placebo effect” can occur. The placebo effect can make the person feel better, but it has not been found to induce remission or improve chance of survival from cancer. The patient usually credits the improvement in how he or she feels to the healer, even though the perceived improvement occurs because of the patient’s belief in the treatment. Taking part in faith healing can evoke the power of suggestion and affirm one’s faith in a higher power, which may help promote peace of mind. This may help some people cope more effectively with their illness. One review published in 1998 looked at 172 cases of deaths among children treated by faith healing instead of conventional methods. These researchers estimated that if conventional treatment had been given, the survival rate for most of these children would have been more than 90 percent, with the remainder of the children also having a good chance of survival. A more recent study found that more than 200 children had died of treatable illnesses in the United States over the past thirty years because their parents relied on spiritual healing rather than conventional medical treatment. In addition, at least one study has suggested that adult Christian Scientists, who generally use prayer rather than medical care, have a higher death rate than other people of the same age. |
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