Kill Cams - Page 7

dsi · 2011-10-02, 01:08 AM

The only type of kill information I approve of is general direction of killer (think RO2 style kill cam), how much damage he (and any assistants) did to you and with what gun, how much damage you did to him and others (if applicable), the range between you two and your life time.

Of course that should probably be output to a console of some sort.

Xyntech · 2011-10-02, 01:34 AM

Right now, snipers have tracers. That makes it pretty easy to spot them if you or anybody else is looking in the right direction. I am gonna assume for the time being that PS2 snipers also have tracers, until we have info to the contrary.

So, if I happen to be looking in the right direction, I could already tell my team where the sniper is. Hell, I may not even die to get that information. I may even have a Bolt Driver of my own and finish him off myself.

So essentially, a sniper now has OSOK with a successful headshot and another player can only gain a little extra intel on their location for free if they die. That already guarantees that the sniper got at least one kill and they will still have some time before the dead player or any of their team mates have a chance to rally and respond. All it means is that a sniper has less of a free pass to camp the same spot forever.

How about AA? Another good role where staying hidden is a good strategy. Well AA often operates from more defended and/or remote positions, so if their position is prematurely compromised, it will take a long time for any infantry to get there, assuming that the area isn't too heavily defended to even allow infantry access. So all that's available to quickly respond to the AA are vehicles. Aircraft usually aren't the best choice for this, since they should generally die pretty quick head to head with an AA enemy. All that leaves are land vehicles, which may be subject to the same difficulty getting past defences as the infantry and, depending on what type of AA it is, may not be able to even find a clear line of site to them.

Edit: I forgot about hot dropping on an AI position, but I doubt an armor light enough to fly an aircraft will be able to pack the strongest anti vehicle/anti max weaponry, so unless the AA threat is just some lone infantryman... I don't see that being a target worth wasting all of that time and effort on though. They usually don't get most of the kills on aircraft in PS1 anyways, although that may change in PS2.

There aren't a lot of other roles where staying hidden is that critical a game mechanic. The only other one I'm thinking off the top of my head is Infiltrator and I hope nobody is suggesting that they will be hurt by it. As long as the Infiltrator knows about the mechanic (duh), they could just move 20 feet away probably be able to hide in plain sight. It's not like the dead player or his team mates will be able to respond any more quickly if the victim tells them where the infiltrator was versus him just telling them generally that he was killed by an infiltrator.

I would find some fun in a kill cam, but I could take it or leave it. If the fanbase disapproves strongly enough and/or the devs decide to scrap it, no harm done, but I really can't see it hurting the game.

Originally Posted by Helwyr

If players can turn it off in that they will neither see or be seen by others via kill cam, an option to completely disable the feature by individual players, I'm pretty sure all the objections here including my own will vanish.

This is actually a pretty cool idea. It would be a fairly awesome way to appease everyone. If you felt that a kill cam would detract from your enjoyment and/or you thought an enemy seeing you on kill cam would compromise you in ANY way, you could disable it. Naturally, when you had it disabled, nobody could see your kill cam, but you couldn't gain any advantage by seeing theirs even if they allow it (shouldn't be a problem considering, as I have argued, that there will probably be no real advantage, but we are also talking about perception here). Players who love kill cams, enjoy them sometimes or don't really care one way or another could leave them on and see each others kill cams when one person with it active killed another.

I still say that being able to toggle it off only on the dead players side would be a pretty good solution considering it would mostly be an aesthetic option at that point, but I don't see why Helwyr's suggestion wouldn't be doable and a perfect compromise.

Raymac · 2011-10-02, 03:24 AM

Originally Posted by Helwyr

Raymac for someone who doesn't really care if this feature makes release or not you sure have spent a great deal of time posting defending it. If true it doesn't seem a very efficient way to spend your time on these forums.

Most of us are not dismissing it out of hand, the very post above yours by Wahoo gives very clear reasons why a good few of us are concerned by the possible inclusion of this feature. I'm not sold on your idea that a kill cam is a needed or even wanted learning tool either, nor does it seem are many others.

So, with what information we have, we have weighed the possible pros and cons, and found the likely cons far outweighing any likely benefits of kill cams in
PS2.

I thought it would be painfully obvious by now that I'm a loser with no life. I'm not being sarcastic at all either. You're right. I am spending a fair amount of time and effort debating something that really isn't all that important. I guess I just felt a desire to do it since so many people were dismissing the idea out of hand. If you think I'm making that up, you may want to go back and look at the first few pages of this thread. It was essentially "No, because it's in COD." That was it.

You're also right. Wahoo and others have made some very valid points against it. I don't mean to conclude that everybody needs to write an essay just to post, but if the only argument against a new feature is "because it's in BF", well thats not good enough for me.

I guess I'm just getting tired of every single new feature getting shot down by PS vets just because it's new or there is something comparable in a different game. The very day the game was announced, the forums were blowing up with "classes? no way!" ( http://www.planetside-universe.com/f...ad.php?t=36381 ) or "no more sancs? thats dumb" ( http://www.planetside-universe.com/f...ad.php?t=36442 )

I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the skepticism and resistance to change because it's natural especially with a game that we're so fond of, so I just need to do a better job of dealing with it.

Kinda realizing this whole post is basically off-topic so I'll cut myself off here. Sorry.

Zulthus · 2011-10-02, 03:49 AM

The whole reason us "vets" shoot down ideas is because we've been around the block a few times. We've seen some stuff, man. Killcams, in some opinions, are stupid. All they do in my view is show your position. In yours they teach you right from wrong. That's fine. Solo MBT's. They promote killwhoring, and steer away from teamwork. Why get a gunner if you can just gun the main cannon yourself? I can go on, but I think that makes my point as clear as mud.

Straws · 2011-10-02, 05:19 AM

Ah, and there was me thinking that 'Kill Cam' meant the option of review my death. If it does go the way of being shown who my killer was, then yeah, it will be exceptionally flawed.

Talek Krell · 2011-10-02, 05:22 AM

Yeah, I wish they'd tell us what sort of kill cam they mean. That assumes they've decided of course. They may be reviewing their options.

LostSoul · 2011-10-02, 07:12 AM

Playing PS1 y'day i'd love a killcam in there, died in some dodgy ways

Pennybags · 2011-10-02, 12:28 PM

Remember how in BF:BC2 you'd spend time finding a really great spot, and after your first kill, they'd spawn back 20 seconds later and drop mortars right on top of you? That was hilarious.

razor851 · 2011-10-02, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Raymac

Yeah dude. Just ignore that troll. He just comes into a thread, says "PS2 will suck" and leaves. At least he just sticks to 1 liners.

I'm a realist.

Tigersmith · 2011-10-02, 01:04 PM

Before I over react about this. I need to see it..

akiadan · 2011-10-02, 01:38 PM

Well playing battlefield, to put a lot of your minds to rest, you could still be pretty sneaky even with the killcams they have. It will probably cut down on the cloaker door camping with a knife (DAMMIT!) but other then that cloakers will have to resort to ps1 tactics, dont stay in the same spot or get a spam nade to tha face. Snipers will be about the same, youll just have to move a few meters to keep them off you for the most part. With the size of the maps who knows how this will go. I'm a little skittish on this but they put them in for a reason, might not even show the killers location may just be gun information and class ect. My 1 cent

Hamma · 2011-10-02, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Raymac

I still don't see how thats "not Planetside".

Well I stated why I didn't think it fits, rather than just saying "not PlanetSide" in my post.

I just don't think it first a persistent MMO to have this feature. It's not your typical round after round public server in an FPS it's a persistent massive world where getting location is far more important and takes far longer. I just don't think its a good fit for that reason.

Graywolves · 2011-10-02, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Tigersmith

Before I over react about this. I need to see it..

OVERREACT NOW!

MasterChief096 · 2011-10-02, 01:54 PM

Killcams in PS2 don't belong.

Trolltaxi · 2011-10-02, 03:13 PM

A bit late to participate in the debate, but maybe no one has mentioned yet...

With PS1 killcam (showing you fallen, camera slowly turning around you) you were still able to forward intel to your group on chat or on TS/Vent. Actually, this could pretty much srcew up a genhold or a CC-defense. If the dev team focuses on denying this option it is fine by me.

Killcam will be a problem for snipers and maybe for cloakers though... I don't know how to solve it.

What would you like to see when you are laying on the floor dead? Maybe your last 5-20 seconds from 3rd person (and you cannot change the angle, so you can't look back to check where you were fired at from)... Would that work?