News: "Theme" Week Common Pool?

[Mazzy]

The armament description is on the main site. It's just been converted to a gunship is all.

With the washtub belly and massive pontoon looking things it looks like wallowing seaplane though. I much prefer the shopped mockups in this thread with the slimmer design.

[Srixun]

Please make them aerodynamic and not like they were made by the elephant man... :/

also, give users full control, if a sucky pilot gets in and wipes everyone because he rolls over, let it happen. lol.

[Talek Krell]

Originally Posted by Erendil

I like this setup. Precision bombing requires a greater sense of timing and coordination with the plane's movements so it'd make sense to give bomb-control over to the pilot. Whereas MG's and guided missiles both would require aiming that's independent of the lib's movement so would be better served by a separate gunner.

I think you're paying too much attention to what makes sense for a user and not enough to the balance of it. If the nosegun hasn't been nerfed then it's already a very potent weapon on it's own. Adding instant kill bombs to that would be a huge amount of power in the hands of one person(you know that the TG will be empty ). The jets in Battlefield 2 worked basically like that. I once read an interview, somewhere out there, where one of the devs stated flat out that making them that way was a huge balance error and was the reason that jets hadn't appeared at all in the next two BF games.

Edit: That turned out rather long for a discussion on something we know isn't in the game. >_>

[Erendil]

Originally Posted by Graywolves

I don't think giving bomber controls to the pilot makes any sense at all, especially when his aircraft is an awkward turtle in the sky. He needs to see forward and around to pilot well with an awareness of the dangers, he can't be looking down and dropping bombs at the same time.

Who says the bomber needs to change their whole PoV to look through the bottom of the aircraft to drop bombs? A simple solution would be to pop up a small "downview" window the size of the minimap on your HUD and aim using that. Or heck, even the minimap itself could be used for that matter.

However, Since the lib in PS2 is a gunship, Sirisian and I are picturing it to act more like a tank buster and precision dive bomber like the Douglas SBD instead of its role in PS1 as a high-altitude carpet bomber like the B-17. So it would dive in at high speed from high altitudes, drop 1 or 2 pairs of 500lb bombs at a single target, and fly away to safety.

In this role, looking downwards through the bottom of the aircarft wouldn't be necessary, or even desired in many cases. And given the Dev's admitted focus of the game away from indirect fire and more towards direct engagements, if the Lib gets bombs at all in PS2 I'm willing to bet it'll be for dive bombing, not carpet bombing.

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

I think you're paying too much attention to what makes sense for a user and not enough to the balance of it. If the nosegun hasn't been nerfed then it's already a very potent weapon on it's own. Adding instant kill bombs to that would be a huge amount of power in the hands of one person(you know that the TG will be empty ). The jets in Battlefield 2 worked basically like that. I once read an interview, somewhere out there, where one of the devs stated flat out that making them that way was a huge balance error and was the reason that jets hadn't appeared at all in the next two BF games.

Edit: That turned out rather long for a discussion on something we know isn't in the game. >_>

No, I was going under the presumption that the ability to bomb would be an unlock, and that you'd remove the nosegun as the driver weapon and swap it out for the ability to drop bombs instead. So just like any other weapon customization, you have to give up something in order to add something else in.

And as counter-intuitive as it may sound, even though the Lib is now a "gunship" and not a "bomber," that doesn't mean that it won't have the ability to drop any bombs at all. It's just no longer its main focus or primary role. I could easily see them adding in precision-bombing capabilities like I described above at some point, and it still wouldn't be a "bomber" like it was in PS1.

[Talek Krell]

Originally Posted by Erendil

And as counter-intuitive as it may sound, even though the Lib is now a "gunship" and not a "bomber," that doesn't mean that it won't have the ability to drop any bombs at all.

At launch it apparently means precisely that. Now if we're lucky then we can nag Higby until they introduce bomber modules, but for now it's not in.

Originally Posted by Erendil

No, I was going under the presumption that the ability to bomb would be an unlock, and that you'd remove the nosegun as the driver weapon and swap it out for the ability to drop bombs instead. So just like any other weapon customization, you have to give up something in order to add something else in.

I'm not sure removing the nosegun would fix the matter, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt. How powerful/adaptable are you envisioning these bombs as being though? What clip size/refire rate? I think part of our disagreement may be just that I used the Lib as a dive-bomber, where you saw it as more B-52.

[Erendil]

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

At launch it apparently means precisely that. Now if we're lucky then we can nag Higby until they introduce bomber modules, but for now it's not in.

Yes, we can hope.

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

I'm not sure removing the nosegun would fix the matter, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt. How powerful/adaptable are you envisioning these bombs as being though? What clip size/refire rate? I think part of our disagreement may be just that I used the Lib as a dive-bomber, where you saw it as more B-52.

Well I haven't really thought too much about the ramifications of how powerful the bombs would be.. But of fthe top of my head I figure it'd be something like this:

I picture the Lib having a clip size of 4 bombs, dropped at 1 bomb/sec. I like the distinction of AI and AV bombs, but whether you'd use a toggle switch or need separate ordinance IDK.

The AV bombs would do more damage than they do in PS1. I'd say 2 bombs would be enough to take out a MBT on direct hits. However, explosive damage would be greatly reduced so the MBT would (barely) survive a clip of 4 near misses or 1 hit and 3 misses. But the explosive radius would be bigger than now. The damage from AI bombs would be pretty close to how they are now - at least against softies. Radius might be a little bigger.

However, the bombs would retain the forward momentum of the Lib so they would move quite fast if dropped while the Lib was in a steep dive. They would also fall at the speed of gravity if dropped while the Lib was level.

End result being more powerful bombs that are harder to hit with if you're altitude is high. But if you get in close it'd be easier to score hits (and thus kills).

A lot fo course depends on how fast and durable Libs are in PS2, tho.

[Tycho]

They should just make it like an AC-130 gunship. Bank left and let fly with artillery, grenades, and Mini-Chainguns. 4 person vehicle. 1 pilot, three gunners. Make it empire specific with the main guns on each MBT as the Artillery piece.

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by Tycho

They should just make it like an AC-130 gunship. Bank left and let fly with artillery, grenades, and Mini-Chainguns. 4 person vehicle. 1 pilot, three gunners. Make it empire specific with the main guns on each MBT as the Artillery piece.

Only if its like transformers and i can request the AC130 to use sable rounds.

[Graywolves]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

Only if its like transformers and i can request the AC130 to use sable rounds.

And when the Navy is introduced our ships will have rail guns!

[FriendlyFire]

Just say'n.

[Firefly]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

Only if its like transformers and i can request the AC130 to use sable rounds.

Sabot*

You're welcome.

[acosmo]

kind of curious what country he's from

[BlazingSun]

Common Pool "week" ... when will the next vehicle be "revealed"?

[Knocky]

Curious as hell about the Lightning. They confirmed it in and that it would be different since the MBTs are gunned by the drivers. What role could a Lightning possibly have?

[Coreldan]

More maneuverable, turret could be faster at moving, you can probably customize the main gun, while with ES tanks you will always control the big ass turret while the secondary gunner gets the customizable thing (AI, AV, AA), cheaper (resources) to pull, lower cooldown.

Some ideas there