News: Community Night with Matt Higby Recording - Page 7

HitbackTR · 2012-01-30, 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by NewSith

They were. This had been put up many times already.

The only time I managed to defend the CC successfuly as a sniper was in caves, when I was guarding both CC entrances and my mate was guarding the console in a MAX. But yet again enemies were just coming one by one... If they gathered we wouldn't have made it.

Other than that snipers has no use. Not about their competence.

Have to disagree here. Like any class the ability to perform their role was important. In open field scenarios snipers had many roles, e.g., taking out CE from a distance, taking down enemies making their way across terrain and also taking out other snipers who were doing the same. Other roles such as lighting up hidden AMSes for OS targeting, bomb drops were also important, i.e., useful, as was the ability to take down cloaked infils moving at speed. Even combat sniping, (no-scoping) in indoor fights was useful. Your one example of how you 'successfully' used a sniper was not a typical example of how I would employ a sniper but it is one example of how they can be useful, but not the only example of how they can be used effectively.

DOUBLEXBAUGH · 2012-01-30, 06:03 AM

When I sniped it was to snipe their snipers, or with Enhanced Targeting and 1 shotting the low people, thats about all it was good for.

Aurmanite · 2012-01-30, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by NewSith

They were. This had been put up many times already.

The only time I managed to defend the CC successfuly as a sniper was in caves, when I was guarding both CC entrances and my mate was guarding the console in a MAX. But yet again enemies were just coming one by one... If they gathered we wouldn't have made it.

Other than that snipers has no use. Not about their competence.

I don't know what kinda people you played with, but snipers were definitely not useless. Our outfit used to snipe in pairs and we could make our names spam like we dropped an orbital strike.

The leader of our outfit used to snipe indoors all the time and was an absolute murderer.

I mean, defending the CC as a sniper? No wonder you think they're useless.

NewSith · 2012-01-30, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

I don't know what kinda people you played with, but snipers were definitely not useless. Our outfit used to snipe in pairs and we could make our names spam like we dropped an orbital strike.

How exactly that helped to complete main objectives, aka generator destruction (hmm), spawn tubes destruction and cc hack/defense?

In zerg I could make my name spam like an orbital strike alone by myself, but that wouldn't help the advancement of our troops in any way. I was just "sniping for myself". That's all there is to it.

polywomple · 2012-01-30, 09:58 AM

I feel snipers will be much more useful considering the capturable territories, CC's and tubes are not the only objectives now

Coreldan · 2012-01-30, 10:23 AM

I don't have the experience to talk whether or not snipers were useless, but in my head having less people defending while I push sounds useful to me. I never worked with snipers per se, but it was hard to shoot at the attackers trying to breach into CY when you would drop down to 35 health as soon as you peeked from your cover.

So, to me while they werent use per se in hacking/defending CC, they played some role with the empire actually getting that far. I guess many would at the hacking point switch loadouts and go indoors at a certain point, but also sniping re-secure teams sounds like something that gave the attackers more time as well, not to mention the intel the snipers could provide when they could see what was coming from a relatively good distance.

But as said, I don't have the experience under my belt to actually argue this. Just my thoughts.

Graywolves · 2012-01-30, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by NewSith

How exactly that helped to complete main objectives, aka generator destruction (hmm), spawn tubes destruction and cc hack/defense?

In zerg I could make my name spam like an orbital strike alone by myself, but that wouldn't help the advancement of our troops in any way. I was just "sniping for myself". That's all there is to it.

Sniping in the contemporary operating environment is for suppression, scouting, and taking out targets of opportunity.

That's how it worked in Planetside and that's how it will always work and is never meant for completing the primary objectives directly.

Gandhi · 2012-01-30, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by DOUBLEXBAUGH

When I sniped it was to snipe their snipers, or with Enhanced Targeting and 1 shotting the low people, thats about all it was good for.

It was actually great for suppressing infantry on walls and in open areas. The things snipers are meant to do. And as a bonus most of the killwhores oblivious to teamwork tended to avoid sniping because "it's stupid in this game", so they graduated from being mostly useless to being useful as part of the foot zerg.

TheRagingGerbil · 2012-01-30, 10:44 AM

Great podcast guys!

NewSith · 2012-01-30, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Graywolves

Sniping in the contemporary operating environment is for suppression, scouting, and taking out targets of opportunity.

That's how it worked in Planetside and that's how it will always work and is never meant for completing the primary objectives directly.

That's the exact point. Snipers are NOT as crucial to teamwork, as medics, engis, and even maxes and cloakers are. That's why sniping is useless. But, idd, if there're objectives that require open field capture in PS2 (like a resource node or something in the middle of an open field), snipers can become more vital to the cause.

But if that happens we're going to get loads of whine saying "OMG, I can't reach target, because I wasn't taught to strafe, nerf sniping asap, it's OP!".

Aurmanite · 2012-01-30, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by NewSith

How exactly that helped to complete main objectives, aka generator destruction (hmm), spawn tubes destruction and cc hack/defense?

In zerg I could make my name spam like an orbital strike alone by myself, but that wouldn't help the advancement of our troops in any way. I was just "sniping for myself". That's all there is to it.

Two quick points:

First, sniping helps immensely in aid to advance an army towards its goals. Two teams of two snipers could effectively clear out a courtyard, pin down advancing soldiers from tower/AMS's, and counter snipe enemy snipers.

Second, Planetside is a game. This obession with having to play 'strategically' or 'for the ultimate goal' is rubbish. Play to entertain yourself. Sometimes you might feel like being a commando, other times you might feel like jumping in the meat grinder. Both are acceptable gameplay choices. Neither is superior.

NewSith · 2012-01-30, 11:17 AM

Okay, I'll just stop arguing here. You don't know me, so you can't know how experienced I am with the boltdriver.

But know that - I used to think like yourselves too. Hell even like that - if I were still playing PS now, I'd still be using a sniper rifle indoors and outdoors with same high efficiency. But I realised that I'm using the sniper rifle for sport, rather than for teamwork. And that's a bad thing. Why have a class, that can only be used for lonewolving?

EDIT: If you believe me - last time I counted I had 9k sniper kills out of 13k total kills. I have a right to brag I think.

Aurmanite · 2012-01-30, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by NewSith

Okay, I'll just stop arguing here. You don't know me, so you can't know how experienced I am with the boltdriver.

But know that - I used to think like yourselves too. Hell even like that - if I were still playing PS now, I'd still be using a sniper rifle indoors and outdoors with same high efficiency. But I realised that I'm using the sniper rifle for sport, rather than for teamwork. And that's a bad thing. Why have a class, that can only be used for lonewolving?

EDIT: If you believe me - last time I counted I had 9k sniper kills out of 13k total kills. I have a right to brag I think.

I don't really know what your personal accomplishments have to do with anything we're discussing. They don't add any credibility to your side of the debate.

If you got 9k kills sniping, you were providing your empire with the 'murderous motherfucker' benefit. That is important in the grand scheme of things.

Why is it bad to have a lone wolf class? Is teamwork mandatory in Planetside? You might consider moving away from the 'everyone must work towards arbitrary goals' mentality.

Planetside is about enjoying yourself.
That's it.

EVILoHOMER · 2012-01-30, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by NewSith

They were. This had been put up many times already.

The only time I managed to defend the CC successfuly as a sniper was in caves, when I was guarding both CC entrances and my mate was guarding the console in a MAX. But yet again enemies were just coming one by one... If they gathered we wouldn't had made it.

Other than that snipers has no use. It's not about their competence.

When were there ever Cave battles? That was a useless expansion made in 3 months with like 2 weeks of testing. I think I could only remember one battle in them because they were so far out of the way people couldn't be bothered to travel to them.

MAX Units became useless so quickly once people worked out how to play the game. All you did was get in an Exo suit, carry a HA and the Deci with the Armour and Med Healing tools. If I can remember you'd have the speed buff, hide round a corner in third person and you could take out MAX units with ease. I think the only time they were ever used is to make flying aircraft annoying because it would only take a couple MAX units to protect the skies.

Last time I properly played Planetside was when it was ruined by BFRs but I played a trial in 2010 and not much had changed other than BFRs being nerfed useless.

Vancha · 2012-01-30, 12:23 PM

I know this might not be a popular example, but say my empire had just raided an enemy biolab generator...Being able to ensure that most of the people trying to clear them out started on half health I felt was rather helpful.

Often you could light up AMS' by shooting them, helping reveal their locations to allies.

You could slow down the rate that enemies pulled vehicles with a clear view of the v-term.

You could clear motion sensors and spitfires that were giving cloakers problems.

Hell, if you were persistent enough you could force AA maxes to take shelter or find a repair friend. I think it was possibly 11 shots to take down a MAX?

Not to mention wreaking havoc on any problematic BFRs, especially if they were standing still.

If you just lined up on the ridge and traded shots with enemy snipers then yeah, you probably wouldn't achieve too much. If however, you removed the obstacles that were getting in the way of your allies completing objectives, then you could usually see what your sniping had achieved.