Make night time dark. - Page 7

Seagoon · 2012-02-03, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Warborn

You really ought to play EVE Online if you don't already. It has horrible, unforgiving, terrible gameplay that nobody enjoys but puts a very strong emphasis on stuff like gathering intelligence and strategic planning. Players working together is the only way to get anything significant done.

Please can you just simply post once the following message:

"I dont like night gameplay and I have seen a game where it did not work years ago, please dont put this in the game."

Just post that once then stop posting, because its getting a tad repetitive since you dont have anything to add to that statement and you just keep repeating it.

Warborn · 2012-02-03, 04:05 PM

I've said a lot more than that, but if that's all you've taken away from what I've written, well, how about just imagining that's what I write instead of me going through the trouble of writing it on my own? Then we can both be happy as clams.

Vancha · 2012-02-03, 04:08 PM

Actually I rather enjoyed the additional challenge weather effects brought. The sandstorm was annoying, but I think that's just because it was badly done. When it rained though I thought it was fantastic.

Originally Posted by Warborn

You really ought to play EVE Online if you don't already. It has horrible, unforgiving, terrible gameplay that nobody enjoys but puts a very strong emphasis on stuff like gathering intelligence and strategic planning. Players working together is the only way to get anything significant done.

Ah yes, people play EVE because they don't enjoy it. That's why it's the only MMO that has a growing playerbase after operating for more than 8 years, because everyone hates playing it so much.

I'd like Planetside 2 to have that kind of intelligence gathering and strategic planning. Not quite in the same ratio to combat that EVE has, but in some capacity.

VioletZero · 2012-02-03, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Warborn

You really ought to play EVE Online if you don't already. It has horrible, unforgiving, terrible gameplay that nobody enjoys but puts a very strong emphasis on stuff like gathering intelligence and strategic planning. Players working together is the only way to get anything significant done.

I actually really like EVE Online FYI.

I just hate its phenomenally slow start and awful learning curve.

Coreldan · 2012-02-03, 04:19 PM

The difference between PS2 and EVE in terms of intel gathering and it's importance is that in EVE you can lose dozens-hundreds of hours of work due to a single fuckup if you blow your ship/get podded/whatever.

PS2 is far more casual in that sense.

Seagoon · 2012-02-03, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Warborn

I've said a lot more than that, but if that's all you've taken away from what I've written, well, how about just imagining that's what I write instead of me going through the trouble of writing it on my own? Then we can both be happy as clams.

Ok, so if I have missed all these vital points you have been making, why dont you enlighten me?

Post them for all to see and discuss (that is what this thread is for right?).

Bonus points if you can put it in short bullet pointed sentances.

Can you do that?

I want to hear your input and discuss it, really I do.

I can do the same if you want, and we can see whos arguements come up trumps.

AncientVanu · 2012-02-03, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by VioletZero

Random suggestion: If we had Artillery in the game, we could allow them to shoot flares that explode over a target area and last like 10 seconds during the night time.

Intelligence should definitely be a key factor in how to defeat your enemy.

That's the entire point behind this. It would test your team(Whether that be faction, outfit or squad) on your intelligence gathering abilities. And after that, it would test your ability to utilize intelligence effectively. Meanwhile, being able to effectively hide own positions to get a clear advantage.

If everyone knew where everyone was, it'd be a very uninteresting game. Especially with how they designed the shooting this game.

So far the only thing that explains how combat will be done in such conditions are these flares that the artillery would be able to fire. Is that all? It will be a race of who can spread some light over the enemy first?
I asked about how pilots would be flying in such darkness, didn't get any answer. If we assume that no advanced simulation cockpits of aircraft will be introduced that would allow nighttime flying based on instruments, the other option is pilots to have night vision turned on all the time.
Then to effectively counter the air force that would have night vision you should have anti-air units (vehicles and infantry) also with nighttime capabilities. So we have pilots and anti-air and recons with night capabilities and everybody else is blind and depends totally on flares? When I said this has to be thoroughly thought out that's what I meant. We are here and you are there and we don't see each other how are we going to fight each other? Recons, intelligence, bla-bla... how? Apart from flairs that will light some extremely limited part of the battlefield for a short period of time how can you effectively fight if you don't see. Artillery doesn't need to see the enemy, it is guided and it can cover a larger territory due to its area of effect capabilities. What about the average soldier, or the average tank driver? How will he fight in such conditions without night vision? Even if your intelligence is perfect, and it will rarely be perfect, even if you transmit some data to him of the enemy's whereabouts he would still need to SEE to engage them effectively. And running with a flashlight in the middle of the dark battlefield is the worst idea as it will immediately make you visible from a long distance making you an easy target.
So until someone explains in detail how can you fight like a mole and still enjoy the game, I refuse to accept nighttime operations as a viable addition to the game unless everybody has access to night vision equipment.

Rbstr · 2012-02-03, 04:40 PM

I quite like EVE's style of internet-spaceship combat as well.

Comparing it to FPS gameplay is, basically, apples to llamas, though.

magnatron · 2012-02-03, 04:41 PM

I would like to see it get so dark that we have to get a flashlight out when there is no moonlight, flashlights should be standard equip just like the knife imo. add skill ups for night vision and some form of flare gun, or a flare gun for the sudy would do too. maybe even an upgrade option for the flight vehicles to drop a salvo of flares on the ground to illuminate the situation.

as far as day/night cycles goes, i see a lot of people in this thread saying they would like the day/night cycle to follow the cycle here on earth....this is unrealistic in a massive way, planets orbit the sun at different speeds, our own solar system teaches us this. and we know the length of the full day on earth is longer now than it used to be. so with what we know, its very likely that the human race will ever find a planet with the same day/night cycle or the same length of year.

if you take this simple deduction into account, along with the fact that this is a game. the suggested 8 hour day/night cycle not only could fall within reason, it will allow those of us on a set schedule to enjoy both night and daytime combat, as i would be bummed if i only got to fight during one time of day.

WaryWizard · 2012-02-03, 04:45 PM

There are multiple ways to lighten up the battle field besides a flare from artillery. Although flares from artillery doesn't sound that nice. I think just a flare gun, and flare options on some aircraft are good. Also aircraft can have night vision, or something similar, as a default. There could also be flood lights of some sort, and you also have moonlight. If you look at the night pictures you can see that there is a GIANT moon and a small moon. You should still be able to play the game relatively well without night vision even on the darkest nights. I just think that(from what I've seen) the night should be darkened a few candelas. Shutting down power to a base could also turn off lights (flashlights actually get some use) you could have emergency lights(empire coloured) go on so as to keep it from going pitch black

I also think each empire could have their own night vision. Red hued colour for the TR, Blue for NC and purple for VS.

Another thing is thermal. Although it may be a little op (very hard to hide from) I think it would be nice. Again empire coloured would be nice. Hot things could appear as a lightish red and go down to maroon as it gets colder, and eventually going black. NC could have yellow to blue to very dark blue. Vanu could have Cyan to purple to very dark purple.

Just a thought

Seagoon · 2012-02-03, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by AncientVanu

-snip-

man you presume a lot of stuff...

Firstly, like I keep saying but no one listens (maybe they dont want to?) :

There is already going to be lots of light sources through out the map, areas might be very dark, but where people are and where combat is, light will follow. On top of that, like I keep saying, the brightness of night DOES NOT HAVE TO BE A FIXED VALUE, it can very easily change over time or night by night on a number of variables if the devs so desire to implement them, and none of them are hard to do either.

On to the other points:

1) Base lighting, we have seen screenshots of bases at night, they have lights everywhere and floodlights for courtyards and so on. This would naturally extend to towers and other structures outside bases. There might even be catseyes for driving on roads at night.

2) vehicle lights, all vehicles (maybe even flying ones) have headlights that can turn on and off. I can see a simple upgrade for tanks being a powerful spotlight that can attach to the turret.

3) infantry will have flares and torches that can be used to light areas around them, they can also use grenade launcher launched flares to light areas. Saying that these will be short lived or low powered is just silly, these are two factors that can be changed with just a number edited by the devs, you have no proof or reason to think that they would be that way.

4) how would an aircraft attack at night?
Well, just like with the infantry and ground forces night will impare their ability to attack, however, vehicles will have headlights to spot them by and infantry will be firing tracers and using flares. Maybe you wont be able to see the infantry or vehicles trying to be stealthy, but the ones in combat will be easy to see.

5) how will aircraft fly ?
We have already seen a example hud of the aircraft that show two important things required for night flying: A virtual horizon and an altitude meter.
with these two instruments you can easily fly at night.
On top of that, night does not mean everything is black... thats not how night works ffs. Only on completely overcast nights with a newmoon is that the case.
There will most likely be silhouettes of the terrain for you to fly by.

AncientVanu · 2012-02-03, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Seagoon

On top of that, night does not mean everything is black... thats not how night works ffs. Only on completely overcast nights with a newmoon is that the case.
There will most likely be silhouettes of the terrain for you to fly by.

I see some misunderstanding here, I'm fine with the way the night in PS2 looks like from what we've seen on the screenshots. I was arguing with the people who want to make it totally dark as they are proposing it but not providing enough info on how would it work for the players. In addition to that "very dark night" they want to remove night vision, which by the looks of it might not be needed if the night is as it has been presented in the screenshots, but which would absolutely be necessary if the night is made as some people are proposing it to be (dark as it is in reality).

WaryWizard · 2012-02-03, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Seagoon

2) vehicle lights, all vehicles (maybe even flying ones) have headlights that can turn on and off. I can see a simple upgrade for tanks being a powerful spotlight that can attach to the turret.

3) infantry will have torches

I think spotlight might be a better word to use for aircraft. At least I hope it is something like that.

Also will infantry be getting regular torches or is it a "Safety Torch"

Seagoon · 2012-02-03, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by AncientVanu

I see some misunderstanding here, I'm fine with the way the night in PS2 looks like from what we've seen on the screenshots. I was arguing with the people who want to make it totally dark as they are proposing it but not providing enough info on how would it work for the players. In addition to that "very dark night" they want to remove night vision, which by the looks of it might not be needed if the night is as it has been presented in the screenshots, but which would absolutely be necessary if the night is made as some people are proposing it to be (dark as it is in reality).

Actually I am one of those people who think that night should be as dark as reality, but people dont seem to know what night is actually like. Maybe they are mostly from citys and dont see real night often?

Anyway, my point is that night SHOULD be pitch black if it is an over cast night or if there is no moon. However it should also be everything inbetween, and each of these different levels of light will provide a different battlefield to take advantage of.

My post is trying to explain, that even if it is pitch black, there will be plenty of ways to spot things, sure it will be harder than during mid day, and maybe if someone really does not want to be seen they can use it to their advantage, but at the same time, other people already in combat, with flares, tracers, headlights and so on will be provding plenty of light to attack back with out having to resort to basically saying sod it to darkness and including IR or enhanced lowlight.

Originally Posted by WaryWizard

I think spotlight might be a better word to use for aircraft. At least I hope it is something like that.

Also will infantry be getting regular torches or is it a "Safety Torch"

Yeah that does make sense to give aircraft spotlights :P
Spotlights being used to spot things at a distance and to light large areas, and headlights just being used to aid in driving, aircraft not really needing to worry about roads might need somthing a bit stronger. navigation lights might be cool to see streaking across the sky... Although IRL they turn those off in combat situations.

And also I hope if they do include dark nights they also include proper lights for infantry, it should not have to be an attachment for the gun. (and no blinding with flashlights like in BF3, THAT IS annoying)

AncientVanu · 2012-02-03, 05:08 PM

Basically some people are proposing a very dark night where you won't be able to use night vision, and will be totally dependent on "intelligence", running with flashlight around... This sounds like a terrible mole fight. Currently in the US army all vehicles, be it a humvee, a Striker, an M1A2 or a helicopter has night vision equipment, even the A-10C crews are using night vision goggles even though they have FLIR capable targeting pods. Yes cause in the real night, the one that some of you so anxiously expect to see in PS2 you can't see **** and you don't fight with flashlights. I can't imagine why someone would want to fight like that and consider it enjoyable.
So it's either the night from the screens, or it's a pitch black night but with the use of night vision equipment, without it it would be a parody.