Do planetside players have legit concerns or do they just hate to evolve? - Page 7

NewSith · 2012-05-18, 05:43 PM

I think the thread about the jumppads gives all the answers. If the feature is well though out, there'll be little/no whining. Remember the GG implementation... Despite its obvious overpower people had no issues with it after the second patch.

Most of the "huh"s related to PS2 is in fact the class system against free inventory and lack of sanctuaries, but people got accustomed to even that.

Stardouser · 2012-05-18, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by JPalmer

it will be hard to rally a community that has members that highly like the direction the game is going in. Good luck with changing everyone's minds though.

For your Alpha statement. I can agree that features should be discussed now. This is a good time to do it. But, if you think the game has gone in a completely wrong direction then Alpha is not the time to say that. So many features and things will be changed in the future. Saying the game has loss all of it's connections to the original and it lacks all freedom is just silly.

I don't think the game has gone in a completely wrong direction, not at all! Right now the only thing that's worrying me is TTK and game pacing(jump pads fall under game pacing, that's why I'm not listing jump pads as a separate issue). TTK can be easily fixed, I mean, changing deviation/bullet damage/recoil is a lot different than redesigning a continent. The landscapes seem great, base size seems great, all of that seems great.

But a low TTK can definitely change the experience negatively, even though it's such a small detail in many ways. Fortunately it's also easy to change.

In fact, at this point, I am VERY pleased that TTK and jump pads/pacing are the only issues to worry about. E3 may reveal more, who knows, but at this point it's reassuring that there are so few issues.

Dreamcast · 2012-05-18, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by WildVS

This thread is pointless. Why do you think SOE opened up the dev community to such interaction with the fans at such an early phase of the game? To get sunshine blown up their asses? Hell no. They want feedback. It won't all be good and I hope they expect that. Work with us. Change. Adapt. or at least explain. And ALL of that has been done.

ORLY? Did I ever say we shouldn't voice our opinions, Im just saying some people over exaggerate.

Originally Posted by Bobby Shaftoe

You're so hung up on this simplicity that you don't actually see past it.

This 'simplicity' allowed outfits to co-ordinate (through 3rd party voice since ingame was... bad) air-drops, logistics, tank columns, spec ops... everything you could think of and more.

This 'simplicity' allowed people to actually play the game and have fun whilst still giving them the freedom to be as involved in the massive fights or lone wolf should they wish.

This 'simplicity' and it's entailed freedom of action was what truly made PS so good, it allowed US, the players, to really be a part of the game and make it so much more than all those other fps out there.

You're telling old PS players to adapt, when the reality is, they adapted so much so that, now, they see decisions being made for PS2 which will actually REDUCE their options/abilities/freedoms that were in the original and you want us to believe it's evolving...

I do find it funny that your 'sniper healing' example was OP, yet when I first played PS all those years ago, I had a conversation with a cloaker in a squad I was in and I asked him what he could use, such as a sniper rifle, he said, no, think how overpowered that would be, stealth and 2 stk from 300+ metres... yet here we are 9 years later and the cloaking 'class' has a sniper rifle.

As mentioned earlier by Longfella, I think, PS2 is looking nice and shiny but no one played PS for the graphics. I hope the team aren't getting stuck into the graphical side of things that are comparatively easier to make amazing than working on the difficult, nebulous, intangible 'gameplay' factor that will be what really makes PS2 the great game it should be.

The point was Planetside is no complicated...So I don't understand this dumbingdown comments...How in the hell does putting classes dumb it down?.....I mean it was so complicated putting OP setups together, I doubt people in these day and age can handle it

As for evolving since the word offends ppl so much...I meant change...Don't use the word evolve then just change....

Most of the changes I have heard...will not reduce teamwork, I dont see how a cloak sniper will reduce teamwork...or classes will reduce teamwork (Infact it will make teamwork more usefull since the sniper can heal himself anymore).

As for the cloak sniper...Do you even know how it works?.....That's right you don't yet you are saying is gonna be OP....Maybe sniping will be harder in this game, who knows.

One thing I do know is that when a sniper got shot in PS1, he just healed himself and camped on the same area until he was killed by a cloak or aircraft...that just ruin sniper battles....and what I just said is fact, not speculation like u.

Gonefshn · 2012-05-18, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

That means providing a quick way to get to the area where the combat is taking place. It doesn't mean we have to have CoD and BF3's extreme low TTK. I don't advocate Planetside 1's high TTK either, a middle ground is best. Though I feel compelled to mention that Bad Company 1 had a pretty insanely high TTK and some casuals on Mordor's forums still speak very highly of it.

One thing SOE needs to understand though, is that the casual FPS market players will be the first to abandon a game for the next thing that comes out(and CoD games come out every year). The people who want strategic and tactical play are the ones who will stick with the game, and also they are the ones who will consistently try and rally others to join.

I think the only chance PS2 has of converting the casuals into long time players of a single game is the through the Outfit system and its social aspects. MMORPG players have guilds, but most first person shooters do not have any kind of in-game Clan support at all. That is of course, because most first person shooters are not MMOs. Planetside is. I personally believe that WoW players and other MMORPG players might be quite similar in focus to CoD/BF3 players, but again, BF3 and CoD do not provide the depth of socializing that an MMORPG does.

You raise a good point.

Let me say nowhere in my post did I advocate a high TTK like BF3 or CoD, i was making a general statement which if you asked for specifics I would have said the same thing as you. It means getting people to be in the fight the whole time they are playing, TTK has little to nothing to do with that.

I agree that Hardcore strategic players are the most likely to stick with the game and should be treated with respect. You are absolutely right outfit features and the social game are everything as far as making true converts. It's important still I think to cater to the casual gamers though to get them into the game in the first place. Get people playing the game then let the outfit system and social aspects speak to them and hope they learn to love it. The great thing about planetside is the casual players fight right alongside the most competitive and coordinated. I am confident many people who join for regular shooter reasons will see the depths and be intrigued to learn more.
The best way for success is balance.

Dreamcast · 2012-05-18, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

That means providing a quick way to get to the area where the combat is taking place. It doesn't mean we have to have CoD and BF3's extreme low TTK. I don't advocate Planetside 1's high TTK either, a middle ground is best. Though I feel compelled to mention that Bad Company 1 had a pretty insanely high TTK and some casuals on Mordor's forums still speak very highly of it.

One thing SOE needs to understand though, is that the casual FPS market players will be the first to abandon a game for the next thing that comes out(and CoD games come out every year). The people who want strategic and tactical play are the ones who will stick with the game, and also they are the ones who will consistently try and rally others to join.

I think the only chance PS2 has of converting the casuals into long time players of a single game is the through the Outfit system and its social aspects. MMORPG players have guilds, but most first person shooters do not have any kind of in-game Clan support at all. That is of course, because most first person shooters are not MMOs. Planetside is. I personally believe that WoW players and other MMORPG players might be quite similar in focus to CoD/BF3 players, but again, BF3 and CoD do not provide the depth of socializing that an MMORPG does.

Planetside 2 TTK is fine...Is a killzone 2 clone.

As for the worry of casual players...i think you are underestimating people.

I have talked to alot of these "casual" gamers and each time I mention Planetside, they like the idea...Why? Because people want a game where 1000's of people are fighting.

If SOE does a good game, people will stick around...Casual or not..Specially since is free.

So I don't see what is the big worry....The game just has to be good.

Some of you guys think "Casual" gamers are idiots...Anything COD related is dumbdown in these forums.

SOE is smart also by having certs leveling when people arn't playing for people with jobs so Im sure they are going to figure it out.

Mezorin · 2012-05-18, 06:05 PM

I think there are some legitimate concerns people have, especially in the department of TTK for this game. There are a lot of bizzaro changes like the jump pads that I can understand some people having problems with too, although I think they're awesome.

Overall, I like the direction the developers are going towards here: huge epic battles, better ways to co ordinate the zerg via the mission system, an "all the map is in play" hex system, and cleaning up a lot of Planetside 1's balance mistakes.

The gun play is going to be a culture shock to anybody who hasn't played an FPS since 2004, as sprinting, regening shields, aim down sight accurate guns, and fast TTK are the standard fare these days. We'll still have heavy assault guys and MAXes running around though with powerful defenses, and I bet a lot of COD nooblets will get some very nasty surprises the first time they ever see a MAX rush, or a TR outfit's locked down cyclers/pounders blunting a base assault

I've probably said this ver betum, but we should humor Higby and company a bit until we get this game into our hands. I don't think fast TTK is the end of the world as I'm used to it in BF and COD games recently, but I agree that about a 40% to 30%-ish increase on TTK would be good, especially with the tanks. But who knows, maybe open beta might prove me wrong here and I'll be eating my words.

Toppopia · 2012-05-18, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Dreamcast

Planetside 2 TTK is fine...Is a killzone 2 clone.

As for the worry of casual players...i think you are underestimating people.

I have talked to alot of these "casual" gamers and each time I mention Planetside, they like the idea...Why? Because people want a game where 1000's of people are fighting.

If SOE does a good game, people will stick around...Casual or not..Specially since is free.

So I don't see what is the big worry....The game just has to be good.

Some of you guys think "Casual" gamers are idiots...Anything COD related is dumbdown in these forums.

SOE is smart also by having certs leveling when people arn't playing for people with jobs so Im sure they are going to figure it out.

I am an above casual gamer, and i have always wanted a game that was the scale of an RTS, having big groups or units and such, but controlling one of those units in a 1st person perspective, which Planetside 2 will offer me, so thats one reason i will love it, is because it finally brought my dreams into reality.

Dreamcast · 2012-05-18, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Toppopia

I am an above casual gamer, and i have always wanted a game that was the scale of an RTS, having big groups or units and such, but controlling one of those units in a 1st person perspective, which Planetside 2 will offer me, so thats one reason i will love it, is because it finally brought my dreams into reality.

Exactly.

I have friends who supposedly by these forums standards are "casual" gamers since they play COD even tho they play COD way more than I play some "Hardcore" games.

Each time I tell them about 1000 players fighting with tanks,guns,airplanes...They all like the idea because is just too damn awesome of an idea.

Once people get to experience 1000 Player + fights, 8 vs 8 or 32 vs 32 won't be that amazing..They will fall in love with Planetside 2.

All SOE has to do is make a good game and get people to play it.

Stardouser · 2012-05-18, 06:15 PM

Having a balanced TTK is part of a good game. If you pop your head up and die instantly, and don't even have enough of a chance to react such that you could move 6 inches to cover, that's not a good game.

And I'm not talking about dying to sniper headshots, but dying to quick spraydowns from assault rifles at ranges that should otherwise have been far enough away that you could have made it to cover.

Bobby Shaftoe · 2012-05-18, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Dreamcast

1. The point was Planetside is no complicated...So I don't understand this dumbingdown comments...

2. As for evolving since the word offends ppl so much...I meant change...Don't use the word evolve then just change....

3. Most of the changes I have heard...will not reduce teamwork, I dont see how a cloak sniper will reduce teamwork...or classes will reduce teamwork (Infact it will make teamwork more usefull since the sniper can heal himself anymore).

4. As for the cloak sniper...Do you even know how it works?.....That's right you don't yet you are saying is gonna be OP....Maybe sniping will be harder in this game, who knows.

5. One thing I do know is that when a sniper got shot in PS1, he just healed himself and camped on the same area until he was killed by a cloak or aircraft...that just ruin sniper battles....and what I just said is fact, not speculation like u.

1+3. That's the whole point, PS was that simple it was a case of 'Here are your certs, use/combine them however you like'. Play Tetris with loadouts, plan for what you might need in extended hold situations and bring the most effective weapon for the task you were going to perform. Now you get given a specific class and arbitrary loadout with it and you think that's somehow an improvement? There's more to teamwork than just some forced division of people not being able to self heal/repair, that's like the absolute lowest level of 'teamwork'. It's like the basest level of 'support', you can't do anything alone and HAVE to have someone healing you, whilst the heal bot gets to run around doing nothing but that. I don't want a game where teamwork consists of TF2 medic gameplay or LoL duo bot lane AD carry and support. This is an MMOFPS, 'teamwork', that most bittervets harp on about (I would be willing to bet), is above the 'let me heal/rep you' level of every other game out there and is more about actual tactical and strategic level than just pointing at someone and pressing fire to heal/rep them.

2. I don't mind change if it's done for a good reason, rather than just for the sake of it. Oh hey, small scale FPS have changed since 2003... ok, so you're going to implement those changes into an MMOFPS because... you give me good reasons for doing so then I'm willing to be persuaded.

4. Well I think it's pretty obvious, they cloak, get in position and fire, the act of firing may break cloak.

5. So here, you want to kill an enemy sniper before he backs off and heals, ruining your little 1v1 fight in an MMOFPS (Edit1: ignoring the fact that you get regenerating shields in PS2 which is the exact same as him backing off to repair), where is your buddy to double snipe him, you know one of the most basic levels of 'teamwork'.

(Edit2) You say that healing/repping ruined sniping battles, why? Just because you didn't get the +1 in your K/D?
That sniper was out the fight for 10+ seconds, giving you the chance to target others and letting friendlies push out.
You say that everyone else is whining about all this dumbing down yet you highlight examples where you obviously aren't thinking of anything past your K/D ratio and say it was 'ruined' because you didn't get a kill.

Bobby Shaftoe · 2012-05-18, 07:11 PM

Ugh, anyway, I'm bowing out of this, too much effort to post all these thoughts, I'll just wait and see how it plays and if it's half as good as the original was, it might be worth sticking around for as long as the original kept me.

Baneblade · 2012-05-18, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

Ok guys really? Let's try and at least keep this somewhat constructive.

Here, let me grab my glue gun.

Noivad · 2012-05-19, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by Graywolves

There all always people who see the sky is falling.

It's not limited to vets. Lots of people have legitimate concerns, for some people it just doesn't feel like it some things fit(still a legitimate concern).

The community (vet or not) is passionate. It's important to remember that even if some people say the sky is falling they know fully well they are going to be here at launch.

The sky did fall in PS1 - metors everywhere, It was a sad time for a great planet / cont Oshur. Good battles were fought there. We got the bending, we got the Islands, we got hit by Metors then. And they hurt too. we lost continents and gained planets. The game changed. We had Caves, then BFRs. Rabbit Events were next, chasing after the dam thing. Then the Black Ops at the whim of the devs, came next. The Reserves, The Hackers, The free Empire Vehicles for everyone weekends. Some good, Some Bad, All changing Planetside from the way the orginal played. The Game changed., the Concept changed, the way we played the game. The fall of Leadership as more and more people became CR5. I'm one of those Vets, who loved the old Planetside, adapted to the newer planetsides that followed, and will Improvise in the New Planetside2 when it comes out.

The Vets who speak here, just want to keep the game feeling like the orginal Planetside. NOT BF2 - Not Call od Duty, or one of the other Lame games that think 64 people fighting each other is MMOFPS.

Furber · 2012-05-19, 02:55 AM

Many of the changes were inevitable, like faster TTK and a class system. This is just how games are nowadays, and those systems have their pros and cons. There were other changes, such as the driver-gunner vs. dedicated gunner tank issue, which was beaten to death until they gave us both options. We should be proud of this change though, if we hadn't persisted in saying "We want ps1 style tanks!" then we'd be stuck with fewer options and fewer happy Planetside 2 players (For the record, they are most likely going to have both styles). For the most part, we know what works and what doesn't. We know what made Planetside the epic unrivaled game that it was, and what has been phased out of old fpses (free style inventory is an example).

A lot of people probably just want them to stay true enough to the original Planetside so you can really say "Now THIS is a Planetside game!" as opposed to "This is Planetfield Modern Warside 2". To be a success in the modern FPS market, lots of mechanics will need to match that of what people play nowadays. However, somethings are much better off Planetside-style (Massive scale, teamwork, persistence, 3 Factions, to name a few things) . We (most of us) are the only ones who really understand why, from first hand experience with the reason we're here on this forum today, the original Planetside.

Edit: Also, having said all of this, Planetside 2 is currently looking better than anything I could've ever hoped for. F2P, absolutely INSANE graphics/physics, and it appears to be enough like Planetside1 in my book to be a true sequel

DviddLeff · 2012-05-19, 03:16 AM

Planetside is my favorite game ever, plain and simple.

However it has many, many flaws which need addressing, and PS2 does appear to be fixing pretty much all of them, not necessarily how I would have done it but they are aiming to improve over the original.

A lot of people here whine particularly about FPS mechanics from the past 9 years being added to the game, which if listened to will make the came compare poorly to modern games, and make it feel dated.

However kill cams are unnecessary