Nerf the NC MAX. - Page 7

Dkamanus · 2013-02-06, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Assist

NC has stopped complaining? Really Dkanamus, since when? I play against you, I've seen you numerous times in fights, and I'm fairly sure at every fight there's bitching from both sides about everything and anything. Go to the planetside2 official forums and tell me again that NC has stopped complaining about weapon balance, you can find a post on the first page whining about VS/TR being OP because of X and Y. I played maybe 2 hours yesterday and all I heard from the 3-way fight I was at is that VS/NC whining about the Cycler and how it needs to be nerfed. That's all people do in this game, cry about nerfs. I'd also like to thank you for pointing out that the Magrider is clearly sub-par right now, it's nice to know that NC has noticed this*cough*. Also, as much as everyone loves to whine about the NC weapons I personally prefer them over the the other weapons, why? Because they're better when certed out. I'm almost 100% sure that when the account-wide unlocks go in myself and Nado will be playing NC because they're just better in our opinions, especially now that the Magrider is not worth being VS. We've been playing them lately on Connery, since Waterson is too static of a fight(Tho I do miss you Swiffle <3).

I want to know why you guys are continuing to bring up a MAX vs MAX discussion when it's completely irrelevant. If you want to compare like that then please compare the Magrider vs the Prowler pre-patch, if I was in a Prowler I could beat my Magrider every single fight pre-patch. Now I definitely could, but that's besides the point. Comparing like things in this game is clearly not how they intend to balance, which is evident from the latest changes. In that case, which I've attempted to shine light on here, you take the NC MAX effective K/D compared to a VS/TR MAX effective K/D and it's not even close. Why? Because the NC MAX is much better in situations where MAX units are used most often(Bio Labs).

Once again, hopefully you'll read this rather than just ignoring it, I've stated that I do NOT want the NC MAX to be nerfed. However, I also feel the TRAC-5, CARV, Magrider, etc also did not need to be nerfed. 'Dumbing' the game down so everyone has the same effective k/d is not balance, it's mediocrity and I am trying to get the point across to you guys about that. Someone screams NERF, posts some random stat that supports it, and the community jumps on it. This is how the balance has gone so far, even in beta, and it's not how it should be done IMO as it only makes the game boring.

I complain myself, as a stress relief, about weapons. That doesn't mean I go forumside to have them nerfed. But there's a huge difference between what the magrider could do, compared to the Vanguard/prowler. Even myself went the prowler sometimes and it was absolutely normal to shoot with it. I'm not talking about the strafing speed (which any decent vanguard pilot can easily compensate, more so now, with out buffs and your bug which will be fixed). Mountain climbing. If the nerf affected this huge disparity between the Magrider and the Vanguard/Prowler, then its all good.

I don't even think turret stabilization should be implemented for the Vanguard/prowler, just to give some uniqueness for the VS, which have the weakest shots anyway (and most of the time run HEAT-equivalents), but that crazy mountain climbing had to go away. If this was achieved, then its cool.

The only problem I had with the magrider where those crazy angles no other tank could get. Damage wise? It's cool. Manuverability? It's cool. The Sauron? Its cool as well (and even with the nerf it doesn't seem to be a big of a deal). Just the mountain climbing.

Those prowler changes weren't needed (the extra damage). It fucked more teh VS then the NC. Hate how easily a prowler can farm infantry compared to the Vanguard and Magrider. You know why I did those videos? I really was hoping to see the NC MAX destroy everyone at 1~30m range. I really did. I wanted to know what was wrong the VS/TR MAX so I could at least have a basis to suggest some changes.

What I saw and found out is that most people play those MAXes quite wrong, and this only makes me killing them MUCH more easy. I was surprised that the TR/VS MAX could deal with infantry MUCH more effectively at range than the NC MAX, and I was OK with that. I don't want extra range (give me my 300 certs I spent on slugs, they are a bad idea anyway), I want destructive power and I like being a walking tank that recieve damage while dishing out a lot of damage. It's at close range, and it is fine. The NC MAX is working perfectly. People want laser sights? Give em. It would benefit the VS and TR a lot, but I guess infantry would PISSED to get killed at 30M+ thanks to a MAX. I wouldn't.

Shamrock · 2013-02-06, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Carver

The VS anti-infantry MAX is prettymuch useless beyond 20m too but it doesn't fucking instant kill people with one double-trigger pull (and neither does the TR MAX.) That's what I think everyone hates. It's not that it's really effective at close range, it's that it's so good you can't even react, you can't retreat. You are just dead in about .2 seconds.

The worst is a biolab seige. Kicking out 50-75 dug in defenders is already impossible, but when a pair of NC Maxes with double shotgun instant death is waiting for you at every doorway and around every corner it's downright demoralizing.

Pretty much this; NC players can post as many vids as they like with TR and VS MAX's head-shotting unmoving NC targets. But in base encounters:-

(A) The scat is sitting in a doorway from the objective that it can duck into cover for a reload and then pop-tart out to finish you off (if the 1st volley didn't instantly down you).

(B) When sitting on the objective its likely (and ive seen this plenty of times) that the scat has up to 3+ engineers repping him.

(C) And even if the VS/TR opponent also has engineer support the NC burst will just chew through them so fast it becomes an irrelevance.

(D) AI MAX's are primarily used indoors as shock troops to capture points in CQC ( MAX crash's being a perfect example) or defend them in CQC, so lethality at point blank to 10M is perfect for this role.

(E) PS2 AV MAX's fire rate is just awful, meaning their additional role of AI MAX hard counter just isn't available in PS2 currently.

(F) The old PS1 method of downing MAX's indoors, pop-tarting on a door frame and dumb firing a decimator isn't viable, as in most instances a smart NC player is waiting with a hair trigger for the HA to pop his head out, you wont get away with having your shields wiped out with a bit of health, instead you'll be dead in a split second.

NC you can keep your ludicrously OP hacksaw MAX's if TR and VS get a major buff to duel comets/pounders/falcons that allows us to down your AI MAX just as fast at under 10m.

I agree with Assist that essentially any argument for a nerf that removes a defining feature of an Empire should be resisted, but there should always be viable counters available, if there aren't then that feature is OP/broken.

Dkamanus · 2013-02-06, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Shamrock

Pretty much this; NC players can post as many vids as they like with TR and VS MAX's head-shotting unmoving NC targets. But in base encounters:-

(A) The scat is sitting in a doorway from the objective that it can duck into cover for a reload and then pop-tart out to finish you off (if the 1st volley didn't instantly down you).

(B) When sitting on the objective its likely (and ive seen this plenty of times) that the scat has up to 3+ engineers repping him.

(C) And even if the VS/TR opponent also has engineer support the NC burst will just chew through them so fast it becomes an irrelevance.

(D) AI MAX's are primarily used indoors as shock troops to capture points in CQC ( MAX crash's being a perfect example) or defend them in CQC, so lethality at point blank to 10M is perfect for this role.

(E) PS2 AV MAX's fire rate is just awful, meaning their additional role of AI MAX hard counter just isn't available in PS2 currently.

NC you can keep your ludicrously OP hacksaw MAX's if TR and VS get a major buff to duel comets/pounders that allows us to down your AI MAX just as fast at under 10m.

So long they are completely useless at 10m+, why not? I think people are underestimating their strenghts. People would scream nerf VS/TR WAY much sooner the NC, mostly because we don't have any sustained damage at all. It's all alpha. You want that, give the damage over time you guys can deal and its all good.

Bunk · 2013-02-06, 10:14 AM

You guys are heartless, you want to take away the one thing that NC shines in.

Shame on you

ShadetheDruid · 2013-02-06, 10:16 AM

This whole topic is like someone took the official forums and distilled it into a single concentrated thread.

Dkamanus · 2013-02-06, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Bunk

You guys are heartless, you want to take away the one thing that NC shines in.

Shame on you

Just thinking on the fact that, if they want the same damage as us, they better be prepared for a lame CoF, ridiculously small clips, HUGE reload times (which could be bigger for the NC MAX) and no usability outside 10m range. People must think they will retain their 852 damage bullets + their huge 50~60 clips + their tighter CoF compared to the NC.

zauberkraft · 2013-02-06, 01:04 PM

VS is crying so much its awesome.

ps2 community pretty weird. In WoW you are just flaming the skill of ur opponents, but there are actually no "DAMN OP NERF THIS" threads.

VR Draco · 2013-02-06, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by zauberkraft

ps2 community pretty weird. In WoW you are just flaming the skill of ur opponents, but there are actually no "DAMN OP NERF THIS" threads.

Woooot? Have you been blind?

There were as much "NERF NOW"-threads in WoW and other MMOs like we have now in PS2, this is just normal.

Conq · 2013-02-06, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Shamrock

NC you can keep your ludicrously OP hacksaw MAX's if TR and VS get a major buff to duel comets/pounders/falcons that allows us to down your AI MAX just as fast at under 10m.

All AI MAX weapons should do reduced damage against MAX units. A dual Hacksaw, infantry murdering machine should get obliterated by the first dual Pounder that waddles in the door.

This would balance everything out.

mrmrmrj · 2013-02-06, 02:07 PM

Only if the Falcon can 3 shot a MAX. And if you freak out about "3 shot" then you are forgetting the reload time.

psijaka · 2013-02-06, 03:12 PM

What needs to be done is introduce TR and VS variants of the Scattercannon, retaining their empire specific characteristics.

TR faster rate of fire, lower damage per pellet, bigger mag. Similar DPS to Scattercannon.

VS slightly lower damage, same rate of fire, slightly lower DPS but somewhat tighter pellet spread. Bigger mag and faster reload.

And the NC get something similar to the TR HMG with higher damage, lower fire rate, smaller mag (I would just love to run with this).

Ruffdog · 2013-02-06, 03:42 PM

Dkamanus what armor were those maxes using (kinetic/flak? Level?) And was it recent? Cheers

Also as a question to anyone: how many decimators does it take to drop a max? Let's say with and without flak armor. I put two into a nc max this morning and he was still standing

Sturmhardt · 2013-02-06, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by Ruffdog

Dkamanus what armor were those maxes using (kinetic/flak? Level?) And was it recent? Cheers

Also as a question to anyone: how many decimators does it take to drop a max? Let's say with and without flak armor. I put two into a nc max this morning and he was still standing

Then he had some kind of armor buff, maybe regeneration (how much time was in between the shots?) or flak armor, more likely flak armor. Flak armor is also the standard upgrade for most MAXes, so I would guess on that.

Ruffdog · 2013-02-06, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Sturmhardt

Then he had some kind of armor buff, maybe regeneration (how much time was in between the shots?) or flak armor, more likely flak armor. Flak armor is also the standard upgrade for most MAXes, so I would guess on that.

It was 6 or 7 seconds. Thought flak was the answer. A vanilla that can take 2 plus change would be on par with ps1 lol

Sturmhardt · 2013-02-06, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by Ruffdog

It was 6 or 7 seconds. Thought flak was the answer. A vanilla that can take 2 plus change would be on par with ps1 lol

Yeah, than it was flak armor. I think 2 decimators kill a vanilla MAX but I'm not too sure because I use the flak armor for a very long time now.... but still, decimators hurt a lot