Breaking Lattice - Page 7

Rumblepit · 2013-08-20, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by Timithos

The hex system on Amerish has been stripped of features, it is broken, and non-enhanced. It was abandoned in the name of steam-roll-side-esports and lattice development. They stripped the hex system and stopped enhancing it back in April. You can't criticize the hex system when it was totally abandoned and gutted months ago. A month from now, the lattice system will receive more enhancements, and the Amerish hex system will received NOTHING. The hex system will look even worse and worse as time goes on, and falsely enhance your pro-lattice argument.

that is not true. they have been implementing different features to the amersih hex system for the past few months. none of which have stopped the endless backcapping.

Timithos · 2013-08-20, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

that is not true. they have been implementing different features to the amersih hex system for the past few months. none of which have stopped the endless backcapping.

Can you please list those features? I'm not aware of any. I only play on Esamir and Hossin out support for pro-defensive base design, and protest against anti-defender base design (Indar/Amerish).

Rumblepit · 2013-08-20, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Timithos

Can you please list those features? I'm not aware of any. I only play on Esamir and Hossin out support for pro-defensive base design, and protest against anti-defender base design (Indar/Amerish).

not sure if all the changes were in the patch notes or not , but there have been quite a few changes made.
well you cant hack adjacent hex if your link has been compromised , you cant destroy gens unless you have a adjacent link.cap timers on points and bases were changed.
i really dont play there enough to know all of the changes made, i cant stand chasing down the backcappers.Im sure if you looked around a bit you could find all the changes made,or someone on the forums might now better than I.

the changes did improve the hex system,but it didnt not fix the underlying problem. players can just bypass any base they want at will.

EVILPIG · 2013-08-20, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

not sure if all the changes were in the patch notes or not , but there have been quite a few changes made.
well you cant hack adjacent hex if your link has been compromised , you cant destroy gens unless you have a adjacent link.cap timers on points and bases were changed.
i really dont play there enough to know all of the changes made, i cant stand chasing down the backcappers.Im sure if you looked around a bit you could find all the changes made,or someone on the forums might now better than I.

the changes did improve the hex system,but it didnt not fix the underlying problem. players can just bypass any base they want at will.

You have to stop using the term "backcapping". Backcapping died when adjacency was added. There is nothing wrong with players choosing their own path when conquering territory. If they go around the enemy, then they are leaving their own flank exposed. A good force will have their forces securing and pushing the entire front with whatever forces are necessary, and reinforce where needed. They will also dispatch forces to secure any area that needs it. The only "problem" with the Hex system is that most players are only concerned with what's happening in their hex or are too shortsighted to see the rest. Others, can see it, but lack the forces or the coordination to handle it. Good vision and communication can prevent the enemy from capping across your flank and you can keep the enemy contained. That's a part of the challenge and is very rewarding to those who can do it.

Rumblepit · 2013-08-20, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

You have to stop using the term "backcapping". Backcapping died when adjacency was added. There is nothing wrong with players choosing their own path when conquering territory. If they go around the enemy, then they are leaving their own flank exposed. A good force will have their forces securing and pushing the entire front with whatever forces are necessary, and reinforce where needed. They will also dispatch forces to secure any area that needs it. The only "problem" with the Hex system is that most players are only concerned with what's happening in their hex or are too shortsighted to see the rest. Others, can see it, but lack the forces or the coordination to handle it. Good vision and communication can prevent the enemy from capping across your flank and you can keep the enemy contained. That's a part of the challenge and is very rewarding to those who can do it.

Having a very large outfit dosnt hurt either.I wish you played with those smaller outfits your in now when the hex system was in place. You would know where I am coming from.

Im sorry, call me a bias prickk,,, but I dont like to even think about the days I had to play this game during the hex system. It was bad.... Am I the only one that feels this way?If so ill be happy to keep my mouth shut.

EVILPIG · 2013-08-20, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

Having a very large outfit dosnt hurt either.

That is true. More true is being able to coordinate. A lot of these alliances we see, official or not, are groups of smaller outfits that function like a large one. If they communicate and balance their forces out, they can tackle these challenges too. With Lattice, players don't get much choice and are funneled into the"zerg" fights. With Hex, there's fights of all sizes across the map.

KesTro · 2013-08-20, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

that is not true. they have been implementing different features to the amersih hex system for the past few months. none of which have stopped the endless backcapping.

You still seem to think that is a bad thing where others seem to think it's not. Clearly you're not going to find common ground with people who hold an opposing idea of the hex system to your own.

I played/play in a smaller outfit and I really liked the hex system. Were the ghostcaps annoying yes but I also think it's annoying to be forced into a Platoons vs platoons fights at every base.

It's gotten to the point on Connery where I see outfits purposely let the enemy zerg finish and reach the WG before pushing back out.

There needs to be some sort of compromise with the lattice so it's not '100%' this is the way you are going.

Rumblepit · 2013-08-20, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by KesTro

You still seem to think that is a bad thing where others seem to think it's not. Clearly you're not going to find common ground with people who hold an opposing idea of the hex system to your own.

Why is Amerish never pop locked on connery then? Esamir and Indar both are pop locked on and off all week.

Why are you forced into platoon vs platoon fights? I find fights of all sizes everyday.
You dont have to be apart of the main fight either, just because the enemy has 2 platoons in a bio lab dosnt mean you have to take your 2 squads in there. Defend a satellite base, or do a HEY KOOLAID, bring your 2 squads into the bottom of that bio lab with a GSD sundy and deny them armor, and kill them all as they try to get it lol.

I think we have more options with lattice because it caters to both large and small groups and outfits.
Hex system caters to very large outfits and alliances. Something that is not on every server, nore should be a requirement to play this game.

And i did say lattice should be less restrictive,and it will be when continental lattice is implemented. I also said there was no reason to have any satellite bases tied into the lattice system. This would allow players access to all bases around a major facility . But they should not be allowed to progress until that major facility is taken...... this is a must.
The enemy should never ever be allow to bypass one of these bases.

You do know when continental lattice is implement most of these fights will faction vs faction. It will not be a 3 way everywhere.Meaning it will be NC vs TR on indar, giving each faction 17% more options when it comes to lanes and lattice.This will be the case in most places, but Hossin will be a 3 way mess for many months to come.

EVILPIG · 2013-08-20, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

Im sorry, call me a bias prickk,,, but I dont like to even think about the days I had to play this game during the hex system. It was bad.... Am I the only one that feels this way?If so ill be happy to keep my mouth shut.

Hex was at it's worst in Tech Test when anyone could hack anywhere regardless of having a link. Adding Adjacency stabilized this a lot and now you need only tackle them before they get too deep. Perhaps what is currently needed is that if the territory you are in gets truncated, then you cannot hack anything that isn't linked to your primary area. By that I mean, through adjacency, you must have a connection to your warpgate, or you cannot go any further. This way, you could hack deep into and flank enemy territory, but if you get cut off, you can't go any further and must either simply defend what you have or reestablish the link.

Lattice is just too dumbed down and lacks strategy. You pretty much just point a finger down a rush lane and go at it. With Hex, you have to be thinking 2 steps ahead. You can out manuever or chase down the enemy. Take them on head on and stop them, or flank them. If you're a smaller force, you can avoid the larger forces. If you're larger, you can run down and jump on the smaller forces. There's just so much more too it. Influence certainly played a role in how forces attacked.

Timithos · 2013-08-20, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

not sure if all the changes were in the patch notes or not , but there have been quite a few changes made.
well you cant hack adjacent hex if your link has been compromised , you cant destroy gens unless you have a adjacent link.cap timers on points and bases were changed.
i really dont play there enough to know all of the changes made, i cant stand chasing down the backcappers.Im sure if you looked around a bit you could find all the changes made,or someone on the forums might now better than I.

the changes did improve the hex system,but it didnt not fix the underlying problem. players can just bypass any base they want at will.

Those two changes you mentioned are what they do for lattice anyway. It's not a hex enhancement. It's a lattice "enhancement" to pave the way for lattice on Amerish. I'll reiterate my point: Hex has been abandoned since April.

Timithos · 2013-08-20, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

Why is Amerish never pop locked on connery then? Esamir and Indar both are pop locked on and off all week.

Why are you forced into platoon vs platoon fights? I find fights of all sizes everyday.
You dont have to be apart of the main fight either, just because the enemy has 2 platoons in a bio lab dosnt mean you have to take your 2 squads in there. Defend a satellite base, or do a HEY KOOLAID, bring your 2 squads into the bottom of that bio lab with a GSD sundy and deny them armor, and kill them all as they try to get it lol.

I think we have more options with lattice because it caters to both large and small groups and outfits.
Hex system caters to very large outfits and alliances. Something that is not on every server, nore should be a requirement to play this game.

Because why play on a continent with a broken, abandoned map system? As good as Hex could have been; it never was. You can't make comparison to something that was abandoned, and make your case for lattice to look good. (I mean you can, but we see right through that.)

Taramafor · 2013-08-20, 04:24 PM

The way I see it there's good points and bad points with both. To put it in the simplest of terms, lattice is too forced and hex is too free.

Hex, despite its faults, gave us choice. But the problem is that there's too much to choose from. It's kind of like trying to decide which single corn of wheat looks best on a wheat farm (don't judge me, I suck at metaphors. >_>).

Lattice on the other hand is too forced. It gives you only one, or at most two paths to go along. No room for flanking and no room to establish any kind of foothold on the sides (notice I said sides, not back) since the lattice only goes one way and not any other.

What we need is a system that presents choices that everyone will use (zerg that way, small elite squad this way or vice versa) while still maintaining a general direction instead of a singular forced direction. And in that singular direction, there should be side directions in the distance to link up with other singular directions (perhaps giving people the option to establish those side bases or, horror of horrors, front lines).

Kerrec · 2013-08-20, 04:26 PM

Indar has ALWAYS been the most populated map. Esamir and Amerish much less so, since I started playing in December.

Then SOE went and put Lattice on Indar first. After that, everyone that defends Lattice has the gall to say, "Hey look, Indar has Lattice and it's the most populated map, so Lattice must be better than Hex!".

If SOE had put Lattice on Amerish first, and Indar became a ghostown for months while Esamir converted to Lattice, THEN there would be a convincing argument.

OR

If SOE had made Lattice WITHOUT breaking Hex to shit, while putting smart fixes to common complaints on Hex, THEN we could look at populations on maps and say, "yeah, people prefer this or that."

But the truth is, Hex was systematically destroyed and abandoned while Lattice evolved and there was never any intention of making Hex gameplay better. In my eyes, breaking Hex and causing crap gameplay on Hex was an acceptable compromise to get Lattice out quickly.

Hex was never improved, and at this point we will never know if it could have been better, OR NOT. Claiming to know is just blowing smoke in people's faces.

GreyFrog · 2013-08-20, 04:27 PM

Im with Rumble, Lattice is a vast improvement IMO.

Calista · 2013-08-20, 04:34 PM

I haven't read over all this but hex and lattice are the same thing. The problem with hex even with adjacency is too many "links". Lattice as it is might be a bit too restricted by links so maybe they can tune it somewhere in between. This would also improve performance by spreading everyone out a bit more but FFS lets not go back to open world whack-a-mole.