Spitfires - Page 8

Buggsy · 2012-10-11, 08:15 PM

The thing is the primary reason people would avoid these ce fields is because it's just not very fun to blow them all up.

Actually playing the combat engineer (punisher + emp rocket grenades) was one of the most satisfying things, until everyone got their CR5 EMP pulse. Nothing was more satisfying than lobbing an EMP grenade in the middle of a battle, and watching mines blow up the cloaker that was placing them on the ground.

GLaDOS · 2012-10-11, 08:29 PM

Hot damn, there's even more arguing here than on the official forums. I've missed you guys

I think I saw the idea that CE isn't in PS2 because it doesn't mesh well with the class system, but someone in this thread on the official forums came up with a pretty simple and good solution to that. Also, I guess to add to the pages and pages of arguing, I'll say this.

CE requires skill to use effectively, just like shooting a gun, except it's a different kind of skill, which is already important in PS2. It can be effective if it's used properly, especially when used along with teammates (you might shoot at the people first, while ignoring the little turret that's unloading into your back. Furthermore, it makes base defense easier, which people seem to love to complain about. I'm not really gonna respond to anyone's argument, just sort of lay that out there.

Also, it's probably worth it to mention that, if you're interested, there was a pretty good idea made on how to utilize the ACE in PS2, which I copied and pasted into this thread on those forums.

Figment · 2012-10-12, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by theknits

And you don't seem to get that a sensor can not only fulfill the role of an alarm but it can do it better than a turret. This mean a player doesn't need to stick around in the event of an empty base.

Actually that's not quite true, I agreed a few posts back it can fulfill the role of alarm, but then I also commented it can not fulfill the role of stalling.

You need CE fields that pose a physical threat for that, even if it's a minor threat. Nobody is asking for killing machines.

Similarly, a Wall Turret that fires on its own like the Phalanx Turret in PS1 (low damage per shot) is a deterent and a softening and stalling mechanism. But when it activates, it ALSO alerts anyone within hearing range of a sizeable enemy unit being in the vicinity. It has three roles. Your sensors only have one, even if they do that particular role better.

But even your sensors would deactivate upon switching roles and you'd still only have few by the same standards you keep trying to pin on players and as long as that's the case, they're absolutely useless unless hundreds of players use them at the same time, which they simply can't. They can't afford not changing roles for five minutes, let alone half an hour to an hour or more!

You're being utterly irrealistic for the sake of paper theory balance.

Buggsy · 2012-10-12, 02:24 PM

minefields/spitfires/sensors were actually useless if no player was around to defend an area. They were free points to the attacker. I liked that part too.

Raka Maru · 2012-10-18, 04:38 AM

What Figment has been saying +100

Gugabalog · 2012-10-18, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by Raka Maru

What Figment has been saying +100

Agreed.

blbeta · 2012-10-19, 07:39 PM

All for spits and CE, there can be a lot of strategy in it. I use to cover towers with boomers that would often kill people who would EMP mines and such on the way down.

I am all for CE.

GLaDOS · 2012-10-24, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by blbeta

All for spits and CE, there can be a lot of strategy in it. I use to cover towers with boomers that would often kill people who would EMP mines and such on the way down.

I am all for CE.

Boomers already exist in the form of C4, but now that you mention it an Engi-only, weaker but spammable type of C4 would be nice.

Traak · 2012-10-24, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by Buggsy

minefields/spitfires/sensors were actually useless if no player was around to defend an area.

Actually I have had an amp station with my standard layout of 15 spitfires and/or shadows on the roof and upper decks, with mines, ward off a resecure attempt when I was across the continent.

CE was one of the most fun parts of the game for me. It really required forethought and planning. Four shadows and an assortment of mines kept towers belonging to our team more times than I remember. They were also not as easy to cheat against as another player. And pilots hated them. Eliminating hot-dropping was a great move on Sony's part. Well, making it so costly to get a plane.

Isn't it funny to think that it costs 4.50 real-world dollars to spawn a Sunderer now?

LONGFELLA KOJ · 2012-10-25, 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by Buggsy

minefields/spitfires/sensors were actually useless if no player was around to defend an area. They were free points to the attacker. I liked that part too.

uh wtf? This sounds like a comment from someone who doesn't understand what combat engineering was all about.

I kept entire caves locked and bases safe on every continent from entire squads with just my deployables alone. If they did not kill the attackers, they allowed me to watch my deployed stats to see if a mine had been killed or a turret was removed. Not to mention the hotspots that show if they are stumbled upon by a nub. And what are you talking about points for the attacker? You don't get points for killing a mine. How long has it been since you played?

The fact PS2 is missing all of that saddens me.

Effective · 2012-10-25, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by LONGFELLA KOJ

uh wtf? This sounds like a comment from someone who doesn't understand what combat engineering was all about.

I kept entire caves locked and bases safe on every continent from entire squads with just my deployables alone. If they did not kill the attackers, they allowed me to watch my deployed stats to see if a mine had been killed or a turret was removed. Not to mention the hotspots that show if they are stumbled upon by a nub. And what are you talking about points for the attacker? You don't get points for killing a mine. How long has it been since you played?

Buggsy has demonstrated in the past that he knows nothing about how powerful CE can be when it's used correctly.

SsapS · 2012-10-25, 01:27 PM

I support this message.

Would be nice to leave behind something to stop a recap immediately after you leave, mines of course, but a turret you could leave around/at capture points.

Wouldn't be too OP if they weren't all that good, but like the author posted originally they shouldn't be very strong, only strong enough to kill someone outright if their head was full of air

When tactically capping a base offensively you would just have to keep in mind that some one may have left behind a few treats. Also, correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't the turrets go offline if the generator was down in the facilities SOI in PS1? I don't remember any fond memories of laying turrets offensively with much luck, and most of my engineer days were defending facilities rather then attacking.

Anyways to not have some measure of autoturret would be silly imo.

edit: o ya tl:dr

Crator · 2012-10-25, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by SsapS

Also, correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't the turrets go offline if the generator was down in the facilities SOI in PS1? I don't remember any fond memories of laying turrets offensively with much luck, and most of my engineer days were defending facilities rather then attacking.

Anyways to not have some measure of autoturret would be silly imo.

edit: o ya tl:dr

Spits didn't go offline if gen is down. They are not tied to power of a base and could be deployed outside of a base SOI. The base wall turrets do go offline when gen is down though.
Spits did use motion alarm sensors to auto-fire. The motion sensors would only pick up an enemy if they were not crouching while moving (exception is the Interlink facitily SOI). Interlink SOI gave spits the ability to auto-fire if the enemy was in LOS.

You typically lay spits to defend something but I've seen some cunning cloakers use spits to attack with before. Very annoying btw.

Figment · 2012-10-25, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by Crator

Spits didn't go offline if gen is down. They are not tied to power of a base and could be deployed outside of a base SOI. The base wall turrets do go offline when gen is down though.
Spits did use motion alarm sensors to auto-fire. The motion sensors would only pick up an enemy if they were not crouching while moving (exception is the Interlink facitily SOI). Interlink SOI gave spits the ability to auto-fire if the enemy was in LOS.

You typically lay spits to defend something but I've seen some cunning cloakers use spits to attack with before. Very annoying btw.

Small correction:

Motion Sensors pick up enemies without Sensor Shield (and not firing or taking damage) at longer ranges than Spitfires and pass that information to all Spitfires in their area of influence. This makes them more effective as the Spitfire use their range better and don't forget a target as easily. They remember and passed on the whereabouts of a target and keep passing that information if that target stays in Line of Sight and then a little. When Interlink benefitted, it also detects stationary targets without Sensor Shield.

Without Interlink Benefit, they only reacted to fast motion, like the built in motion sensor of a Spitfire. A Spitfire normally starts to fire based on fast motion or something taking damage or firing (even if stationary). A Spit doesn't activate on its own if you crouchwalk or strawl (slow move) by it, unless it has Interlink Benefit.

Spits in Interlink Radar fire at everything that isn't Sensor Shielded. T-REKs tend to have a weird effect on the detection rules. Been too long since I used them though.

Crator · 2012-10-25, 09:33 PM

Thanks Figment, I knew there was some more but didn't know exactly how it worked all the way. Some of that stuff you just said I didn't even know tbh.