Tank drivers acting as gunners in PS2 - Page 8

Talek Krell · 2011-09-16, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Don't encourage them.

We got a good thing going here.

Only according to you.

Brusi · 2011-09-16, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by Scow2

Perhaps they could add three tiers of tanks?
1-man Light Tanks
2-man Medium tanks (Driver and Secondary Gunner)
3-man Heavy Tanks (The classic Driver, Main Gunner, and Secondary Gunner)

That way, the biggest guns still come at the greatest cost in manpower and teamwork required.

fuck yeah, can we have mammoth tanks plz?

Talek Krell · 2011-09-16, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by Brusi

CREEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!

kaffis · 2011-09-16, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by FIREk

Wait up. We know the Lib is a 2-seater now, and I only assumed that the pilot becomes the gunner, essentially making the Liberator a dive-bomber, instead of a high-altitude, hovering, carpet bombing tedium generator.

Um, the Liberator has always had a pilot gun. The only reason it wasn't a dive bomber was because of level pitch restrictions on the bombardier.

Logit · 2011-09-16, 11:20 PM

BorisBlade +1

My greatest fear with PS2 was SOE would find a way to screw it up. More and more everyday it seems that's exactly what they are doing.

All of the things that made Planetside feel like a different genre of game are being changed, and it's no secret where they are taking the ideas from.

I, as well as many others, don't play Battlefield for a reason.

Even the BIGGEST and BADDEST BF edition doesn't compare to a single one of my Planetside experiences. Even to this day it's not even close.

I wanted the Sequel, not Planetside:Battlefield Edition

Raymac · 2011-09-16, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by basti

Err, sorry to burst your bubble, but no matter what they do for the casual, the outfits will still roll them all down. Great, now you got 20 casual tanks. THey wont even leave the CY because they are to damn stupid to drive AND gun.

You're not bursting my bubble at all. That's exactly the way it should be I believe. Organized groups working together should definitely be able to roll over a disorganized ramble.

I'm really not understanding the level of panic about this. So a tank driver will have a gun....kinda like the Magrider, right? "Oh that's totally different." you say? When you take a step back and think about it, it's really not all that different at all.

If a tank with driver + gunners is > a tank with driver as gunner, then I don't see what the big freakin deal is.

CutterJohn · 2011-09-16, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by Raymac

If a tank with driver + gunners is > a tank with driver as gunner, then I don't see what the big freakin deal is.

I think people are worried that 2 1-man tanks will be greater than 1 2-man tank in most situations.

Both have perks and drawbacks with the current plan, so its tough to say. The 2-man tank will have greater mobility and somewhat better aim, and be better able to flee and effect repairs.

The two 1-man tanks will have double the hitpoints.

I think they may be even on vehicle costs.. The 2 tanks won't have to buy a secondary turret, but they'll need twice as many tank upgrades, if such things exist.

How it works out... Who can say?

Raymac · 2011-09-16, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

I think people are worried that 2 1-man tanks will be greater than 1 2-man tank in most situations.

Both have perks and drawbacks with the current plan, so its tough to say. The 2-man tank will have greater mobility and somewhat better aim, and be better able to flee and effect repairs.

The two 1-man tanks will have double the hitpoints.

I think they may be even on vehicle costs.. The 2 tanks won't have to buy a secondary turret, but they'll need twice as many tank upgrades, if such things exist.

How it works out... Who can say?

Ah, ok. I can see that arguement. You really don't see that now with the Magrider, but thats because the main gun is so much more powerful. Giving the driver the main gun changes that dynamic a bit. Hard to say how it will balance out.

This might fall under T-Ray's "If it doesn't work, we'll change it" catagory.

Talek Krell · 2011-09-17, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by Raymac

This might fall under T-Ray's "If it doesn't work, we'll change it" catagory.

The problem is that I'm not sure they will. That's why I'm concerned. This isn't just adjusting some numbers to affect the right balance, it's fairly fundamental.

Accuser · 2011-09-17, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by Raymac

I'm really not understanding the level of panic about this. So a tank driver will have a gun....kinda like the Magrider, right? "Oh that's totally different." you say? When you take a step back and think about it, it's really not all that different at all.

As you may have already realized, it's pretty different. Not sure if you've been in a magrider, but the driver's gun is a little like a Lasher set to anti-armor. You'd get more kills running people over if you drive a magrider solo.

Let's imagine for a moment that we put the magrider's main cannon on a lightning and jacked up the armor to MBT level... Yeah, that's different, and it's concerning.

CutterJohn · 2011-09-17, 12:10 AM

So long as they can balance it so that in general, for most situations, 2 people in a tank is slightly better than pulling 2 tanks, I think it will be ok. I don't mind so much if 2 1-man tanks is like 90% of the 2-man tank. Teamwork should be rewarded, and 2 1-manned tanks working together is still teamwork.

That CAN be balanced by tweaking numbers.

Originally Posted by Accuser

Let's imagine for a moment that we put the magrider's main cannon on a lightning and jacked up the armor to MBT level... Yeah, that's different, and it's concerning.

But lets also imagine that it would be facing off vs something with two magrider cannons.. Also a scary proposition.

SgtMAD · 2011-09-17, 12:14 AM

this gunner/driver idea is a pretty good indicator of what SOE is up to, they are building their version of BF and putting it on planetside style maps.

who could blame them,PS at its best was 60k active subs and those BF games sell in the millions of copies range,the bean counters must be pushing for that type of game, they want and need PS2 to sell like all the other big FPS's out there or ppl will call it a failure and all the promised dev support will disappear over time. sound familiar to anyone here?

all i know is I would like to see an updated revamped version of PS,not some clone of another game.

We Want PlanetSide2

dsi · 2011-09-17, 12:21 AM

One man tanking is a horrible, horrible, horrible (horrible, horrible, horrible) thing, please require separate driver and gunner in anything that can do major damage.

Ugh, I was feeling so great today before I decided to check these forums :/ hopefully they decide to make PS2 not suck...

sylphaen · 2011-09-17, 01:19 AM

Actually... I thought about it and I'd take a driver/gunner vehicle...

Make it a light AIFV with some decent AV canon on top, 2 guided lock-on missiles for AA, top-manoeuverability and speed, water-crossing, and room to transport infantry. I could live with less armor and more speed.

More seriously, in an infantry based game, a decently armed FIGHTING platform to support infantry with enough transport capacity, decent armor to withstand some hits and enough mobility to cover large areas in rugged terrain fast could be a winning concept.

Dynamic fights & fast troop movement to move or create a fight !

Now.... about those tanks.... mmm....

@Devs: Sorry but tanker crews are not your everyday grunt and for us, a 1-man tank will never feel like a tank. A tank without a crew is not a tank.The closest thing I would feel is outdoors MAX on wheels !

I have no doubt a 1-man MBT can be given a big canon to look awesome and kick serious ass but , immersion-wise, it just won't cut it.

Here is just one biiiiiiiig difference in dynamics. When a tank is about to explode in a fiery blast of molten steel and scorching fire:
- the 1-man vehicles drivers bail and couln't care less.
- in the tank crew, the driver will tells the gunner to bail and the gunner says he'd rather go down with the ship.

So I do get the point that there will be 2-gunners and the the second gunner will not be meaningless (i.e. Magrider MkII > driver with the railgun, gunner with PPT cannon ?

) but I am intend to convey the cultural shock anyone who has been part of a tank crew would feel when they are told "you can play alone now but having a buddy is a nice bonus". The tank is not about the bad-ass canon, it is about the kick-ass crew!

(oh, and I am serious about thinking through the concept of ground transport better in PS2 than PS1. Rarely did these vehicle were used for transport: aurora>tower camping/softie farming, Thunderer>super-fury, raider... free BEP, sunderer>noise machine)

Traak · 2011-09-17, 03:42 AM

Originally Posted by Logit

And once the game is in beta it's going to be too late because you're not going to remake the whole game.

On the contrary, it takes almost no effort to slide some slider that controls how much any particular weapon affects a tank, soldier, whatever.

To go from three shots to kill a tank, which is laughable, because cloakers will be killing tanks, to thirty just isn't that hard in the code, IF the code is as I think it is, and is programmable for how much damage each weapon does to each class of target.