AGN: Community Clash Recording TXR and MERC vs NNG and TGWW - Page 8

Sardus · 2013-09-27, 12:45 PM

I look at the air thing from a different perspective.

Every enemy player in the air is one less player on the ground. You have the numbers advantage when it comes to holding indoor points. Even if they have the hard spawn in a tower or something, and you don't.

Getting there is the trick. If you're able to get to the target and bring your A game of medics and engineers, you don't need that Sundy spawn. You just hold the point with the higher infantry/max leverage.

Doesn't always work of course. But that's what I often do. It forces them to either come out of the air vehicles (because even if you kill them they will just pull another), or lose the ground game.

retrogreq · 2013-09-27, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

Stacking is stacking. It doesn't matter if outfits are bringing in players because they play together often. If it's to become the norm to bring in whoever you need, then these matches should not be advertised as "X outfit vs Y outfit" any longer, as they are not true representations of such.

That boils down to what you define as an "outfit". Semantics.

The MLG precedent is pretty obvious if you read the rule-set on the MLG website. Some of the time-frames are different in TWL or cevo (24 hours prior to the match vs 6 hours), but all the rules for roster changes are the same. I think most of these complaints are coming from people unfamiliar with how competition, teams, ladders, and things like that actually work. If/when the actual ladder starts, and it isn't just scrims, QRY, Notorious, and TGWW would pick one of these tags to represent, and all fight together. You won't be seeing both/all in the same ladder (unless teams get narrowed down to under 4-8 per side, then we would likely fight under different tags to keep things interesting.)

EVILPIG · 2013-09-27, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by retrogreq

That boils down to what you define as an "outfit". Semantics.

The MLG precedent is pretty obvious if you read the rule-set on the MLG website. Some of the time-frames are different in TWL or cevo (24 hours prior to the match vs 6 hours), but all the rules for roster changes are the same. I think most of these complaints are coming from people unfamiliar with how competition, teams, ladders, and things like that actually work. If/when the actual ladder starts, and it isn't just scrims, QRY, Notorious, and TGWW would pick one of these tags to represent, and all fight together. You won't be seeing both/all in the same ladder (unless teams get narrowed down to under 4-8 per side, then we would likely fight under different tags to keep things interesting.)

First of all, this isn't MLG. Second, it doesn't matter what I define an "outfit" is, PS2 does that for us.

I'm not knocking anyone here, I just don't believe these matches should be advertised as particular outfits, if the outfits involved are just going to grab the best players they can from others. As in your MLG example, name the team and note which outfits are involved.

retrogreq · 2013-09-27, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

First of all, this isn't MLG. Second, it doesn't matter what I define an "outfit" is, PS2 does that for us.

I'm not knocking anyone here, I just don't believe these matches should be advertised as particular outfits, if the outfits involved are just going to grab the best players they can from others. As in your MLG example, name the team and note which outfits are involved.

This is a scrim to test how this map would behave in an MLG ladder, is it not?

You need to re-read the thread, we didn't just grab the best players we could find from other outfits. You simply sound like you don't know what is going on.

Sledgecrushr · 2013-09-27, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by retrogreq

This is a scrim to test how this map would behave in an MLG ladder, is it not?

You need to re-read the thread, we didn't just grab the best players we could find from other outfits. You simply sound like you don't know what is going on.

This is an outfit vs outfit competition. The problem is you brought people into your outfit the last minute as ringers to be more competitive. I bet you guys like to pad your stats by shooting through spawn room shields too.

EVILPIG · 2013-09-27, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by retrogreq

This is a scrim to test how this map would behave in an MLG ladder, is it not?

You need to re-read the thread, we didn't just grab the best players we could find from other outfits. You simply sound like you don't know what is going on.

The mistake is on your end. I am not talking about you or any particular outfit. I have stated my opinion on stacking teams.

retrogreq · 2013-09-27, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

This is an outfit vs outfit competition. The problem is you brought people into your outfit the last minute as ringers to be more competitive. I bet you guys like to pad your stats by shooting through spawn room shields too.

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

The mistake is on your end. I am not talking about you or any particular outfit. I have stated my opinion on stacking teams.

From comments like the one above, I'm sure you can see how I would be defensive. Sorry Pig.

EVILPIG · 2013-09-27, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by retrogreq

From comments like the one above, I'm sure you can see how I would be defensive. Sorry Pig.

It's cool *brohug*

Haemoglobin · 2013-09-27, 02:15 PM

Edit: Edited to let my outfit leaders comment in an official capacity

Dreadnaut · 2013-09-27, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

I bet you guys like to pad your stats by shooting through spawn room shields too.

This is the kind of petty bullshit that doesn't need to exist. You don't know shit about my outfit and don't pretend to think you do.

My CAS30 penetrates spawn shields like a boss as well as my Shredder gunner, right???

Why does 666th keep an asshole like you around? Doesn't sound like something they would tolerate.

Lepalose · 2013-09-27, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Sardus

I look at the air thing from a different perspective.

Every enemy player in the air is one less player on the ground. You have the numbers advantage when it comes to holding indoor points. Even if they have the hard spawn in a tower or something, and you don't.

Getting there is the trick. If you're able to get to the target and bring your A game of medics and engineers, you don't need that Sundy spawn. You just hold the point with the higher infantry/max leverage.

Doesn't always work of course. But that's what I often do. It forces them to either come out of the air vehicles (because even if you kill them they will just pull another), or lose the ground game.

Your third paragraph was the issue we had. After the air was under VS control every push we did, even to defend bases, we had to go back to warpgate and pull resources to get back into the fight. Not only for Sunderers & Galaxies (which both would be hit or destroyed before moving out past the first line of bases) but also for the AA resources to deter their air.

Definitely a huge drain on resources and time to do this considering the current form of the Nexus' spawn mechanics, as well as having no spawn beacons or ability to squad deploy.

Getting an infantry force set up anywhere becomes a matter of attrition from air attacks, as there is not any safe locations for sunderers, or, broadly, from spawn room to capture points when defending.

On Live, that is something we do quite often too Sardus, but on Nexus it plays out very differently.

EVILPIG · 2013-09-27, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Haemoglobin

Edit: Deleted due to request

Just to play Devil's Advocate, you said that the rules set is vague and I don't see anything vague about this:

Player Makeup:

1) All members must be a full time member of the outfit they are representing for the event.

My opinions here are not comment on anything that occurred during any particular match, but stacking an outfit with players who are not usually members of said outfit is pretty lame and the reason I don't think these matches should be labelled as "outfit vs outfit" if it continues. Just provide an honest roster of who's playing and call it such.

Some have said that none of it matters, it's just for fun, blah blah blah, but it does matter. There is a winner and a loser and that information is being tweeted and posted by SOE. If it's not an honest representation of said outfit, it should not be presented as such. I think it's fairly obvious that it all matters if outfits feel a need to stack in the first place.

Dreadnaut · 2013-09-27, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Lepalose

Definitely a huge drain on resources and time to do this considering the current form of the Nexus' spawn mechanics, as well as having no spawn beacons or ability to squad deploy.

Getting an infantry force set up anywhere becomes a matter of attrition from air attacks, as there is not any safe locations for sunderers, or, broadly, from spawn room to capture points when defending.

On Live, that is something we do quite often too Sardus, but on Nexus it plays out very differently.

I agree with you 100%, yet we all had the same issues to deal with. No one had the use of squad deploy or beacons and to hear people complain about not having that worked both ways. I wish squad deploy and beacons had been working but once we were told beacons would not work, we made a game plan based off of that information (Liberators certing Ejection seat, etc). When we were told 60 minutes prior to the match that beacons would in fact work, I voted to not use them based on our new plan that we put in place. To revert to an old plan with less than an hours notice wasn't something I was at all interested in doing.

We came up with a plan and it worked based on the current rule set and the map. Our plan just worked out better than your plan, that's all. I don't think any less of MERC/TxR for losing a silly scrim, we just happen to have won that night.

Elaborate plans will always fail and the K.I.S.S. principle will always be the best option. That was our super secret plan, "Keep It Simple Stupid". As I stated before, it was literally, "Kill SNAFU first, Kill NAPOOPAN second, kill MAGNIFISCENT third, then focus fire everyone else. Be very very aggressive at the start. Be smart, listen to Nate, otherwise don't speak. Listen for the Sunderer strike calls...spawn points win matches, DO NOT let the enemy spawn, force resource drain, whatever it takes, DO NOT let a Sunderer live."

I don't believe that having beacons or squad deploy would have had any different effect on the outcome of the match, but that's just coming from the confidence level in my guys.

What we know after this match:

Resources need to be replenished at 1/2 time. Absolutely no reason to punish a team in round 2 for having a bad round 1.
All resource gain should be MUCH higher so people aren't stranded so early on

Dreadnaut · 2013-09-27, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

Stacking is stacking. It doesn't matter if outfits are bringing in players because they play together often. If it's to become the norm to bring in whoever you need, then these matches should not be advertised as "X outfit vs Y outfit" any longer, as they are not true representations of such.

Except we didn't stack our team.

I'm a member of TGWW on VS on Mattherson
I'm a member of QRY on NC on Mattherson
I'm a member of TGRW on TR on Mattherson

This game wouldn't be any fun for me if I was stuck playing 1 faction. I'd have quit a LONG time ago. I just prefer to play VS because the majority of my friends when I started the game went to VS. Now I couldn't tell you where the majority of my friends play, because it's everywhere, on all factions, on multiple servers.

I also play 3 other characters on different servers (Connery/Waterson) with names I don't share so I can play without people hunting me specifically because that happens enough as it is right now. Some of you may not even know it's me, in your outfits, playing right along side you and always typing because 'my mic is broken...'. There are times when I just want to play, and not be bothered.

The guys that play with us do the same thing, they play multiple factions, and when they play VS, they play with us. This is our team.

What MERC/TxR saw was maybe 80% of the guys we've got slated for our competitive team, and they're very solid. We haven't yet finalized our competitive roster but it's only going to get better with several more very skilled players who want to compete but don't have a team to compete with. The same 12-16 pilots can't always be available for every single match so we need the right numbers so that every time we're called upon we're read.

I don't care what faction my teammates have their highest BR character on, if they have the skill and want to compete with us, it doesn't matter. We have some low level guys that are awesome that we have to pull aircraft for on the regular while they level up, but they are no less a member than I am with 1000 hours on my VS toon. The guys that play with us are only competing on VS at this time. To my knowledge there isn't anyone on our roster that's on another competitive team playing matches like the Community Clash. If there are, it's news to me.

Sledgecrushr · 2013-09-27, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Dreadnaut

This is the kind of petty bullshit that doesn't need to exist. You don't know shit about my outfit and don't pretend to think you do.

My CAS30 penetrates spawn shields like a boss as well as my Shredder gunner, right???

Why does 666th keep an asshole like you around? Doesn't sound like something they would tolerate.

Dude you dont have to get so defensive. I just figured since your team had pulled guys from other outfits and factions to play in this single outfit competition that you were all dirty cheating bastards. Obviously this isnt the case. For you an "outfit" is more of a general idea. And this "outfit" can span many outfits. I understand your logic. You werent cheating, you were just using the resources of this greater outfit that you say you have.