Weapon of Choice - Page 8

JetRaiden · 2004-05-03, 10:24 PM

yea, well....shut up...

Firefly · 2004-05-03, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by Seer

Firefly, mind backing up your extreme claims with data? I'll take accuracy over firepower any day.

Data? Dude I don't go Googling shit. I speak from real-life working-man knowledge. I spent two years carrying handguns and the first time you have to fire and compare mock exit wounds (watermelons make nice demonstrations), you learn to appreciate the size of the hole. 9mil holes... well, I've seen better holes on has-been strippers. A forty-five... now goddamn, anything that walks away from that can have my ballsack.

Mmkay, you take your highly accurate .22 starter pistol at 25 meters and I'll take my .45 at 25 meters. You shoot first. I'll kill you first. Okay. You take your accurate 9-mil and put one round in the chamber. I'll take my nice, highly-accurate, bigger-recoil, bigger-bore .45 (which is roughly 11-mil if I do the math in my head using fingers and toes). One round. Twenty paces. Now, assuming you don't hit me and outright kill me (which could happen but not entirely likely), you just blew your one "Last Man Standing Shot". I've got a .45 that will most likely knock you down wherever I hit, and almost assuredly kill you if I hit in vital areas. Sure a 9mil can kill- I never said it couldn't. Anything can kill if you hit in the right spot. But compare the likelihood and percentage of chance, and your chances drop if you've got a nice pretty accurate gun that doesn't do shit for damage.

Accuracy is all well and good but I'm not talking about overall accuracy as it pertains to every firearm known to man. I mean in terms of handguns, specifically 9mils versus bigger weapons. You can be accurate all day long but if you're not putting someone down then what the hell good are you? Handguns are last-line defense weapons. Do you REALLY want to put your life in the hands of a small bullet? No- I guarantee you that you'd want a handgun that will blow a nice hole in someone AND leave them dying in the mud.

Originally Posted by dscytherulez

Secondly, what you said about 9mm is complete and utter BULLSHIT. Let me shoot you in the chest, or stomach, or thigh. We'll see how far you make it to beating the shit out of me after that.

I'm sure you can sell a great case to cops who have been armed with 9mil handguns and shot people with several rounds and had them survive. As opposed to the guys who now carry Glock .40 because they know better, and don't have to worry about it. Now, sure... many people don't feel like getting up after being shot in the chest or stomach or thigh. But it's happened before. I guaranfuckingtee you, a guy who gets shot with something bigger, DEFINITELY won't be getting up unless he's hopped up on something. Shoot someone in the thigh with a 9mil. They could get up, more than likely. Shoot them in the thigh with a .45 and they won't be too eager to test that theory.

Originally Posted by dscytherulez

A .357 DE is just as powerful, if not more, than a .45 colt. Plus, the recoil is similar. Don't knock Desert Eagles. You seem to be comparing their overkill to a big bore .50 sniper. That is not what you should be doing. A Barret M99 could crack a big block, a close range .50 DE might dent it. There's a difference between caliber and actual firing power.

I seem to be? Where did I mention the Barrett? No, I'm comparing the Desert Eagle .50 handgun to a Desert Eagle .50 handgun. I didn't say anything about a .357 now did I? Powerful comes in terms of how much powder is packed behind your round. I am well aware of the difference in caliber and firing power, thanks. I didn't say anything about the Desert Eagle not being powerful. I said it's worthless for anything aside from sport and target shooting. You see it in movies because that's Hollywood. These are the same ass-tigers that have fifty guys shoot one man, he dodges every round or they can't hit shit, and he suddenly racks up fifty kills. Come on.

Originally Posted by dscytherulez

You also have no right to talk about overkill as you talk about a SAW as a single person assault weapon. It is a covering fire support weapon, not a fucking Rambo gun. You'd get pwned if you rambo'd with that. It's just not conventional.

You said enough for me when you said you didn't know what you're talking about. As far as getting "pwned", I don't think so. I shot expert on the SAW range every single time I went. I also taught classes to the entire battalion's SAW gunners on the SAW and its implementation. I led fire teams and squads to victory during military-stakes events using MILES gear and blanks, which is not thoroughly realistic but it's better than the experience you've got. I've also carried a SAW into combat. This isn't trench warfare we're engaged in these days. You *HAVE* to be mobile, you *HAVE* to get your ass up and get moving. It's made to be a light, maneuverable automatic weapon, a light machine gun. As much as you'd love to think the SAW is a big nasty heavy machine gun, it's not. We're not talking about a giant weapon. It's only slightly heavier than an M16 (at least to me it was, but I'm a big boy). The SAW is a personal weapon, it's not a crew-served weapon with ammo bitchboys. So yes. You CAN "rambo" with it. Especially the para-SAWs, which are basically scaled-down versions of the SAW. When you've actually handled one and fired one, cleaned it and slept with it and made it your best friend and your lifeguard, come talk to me.

Originally Posted by dscytherulez

Lastly, your words on firepower would get you on a snipers shitlist, as they would tell you a completely different story. I'd say it is an even combination of the two. As a matter of fact, I'd say accuracy is more important. If someone could fire a single shot 800 meters away and hit a man in the skull, he's dead. No matter how you look at it, he's fucked. I could send 300 rounds of an mp5 down an 800 meter range and miss him all day, or, put a couple of 7.62's down range and miss with those too.. If that happened, I'd say I'd be the one fucked. It all depends on the situation.

Where in my post did you see me talking about snipers? A sniper is by nature an accurate one-shot kill. Of course it's even combination when it comes to sniping. No one is disputing that. But not every grunt is a sniper and the sniper is a specialized role. I'm talking about for up-close and personal, starting with handguns. Comparing an MP5 to a 7.62 weapon is pretty fucking stupid any way you look at it. First of all, any retard trying to fire 800 yards with an MP5 is a clueless dolt. Nobody in their right mind would ever use that as an example.

Originally Posted by dscytherulez

No, you're right, I have never even held a SAW. But I can logically argue, which is pretty much what I do 24/7. The weight of an unloaded MK.46-0 is about 15 lbs. About the weight of an M16. Now, strap on a hefty belt clip. Add the fact your shooting the full SAW, not just the "SAW Light". I'd say it would be pretty hard to accurately fire many rounds from something that hefty with that much power, while your holding it like an assault rifle. I don't care how "tough" you are, it would just be too strenuous on your arm.

You've never held a SAW. Exactly. You cannot logically argue. First of all, we're not talking about holding the motherfucker with one hand. That's just ridiculous. This isn't Swordfish, dude. Try to separate yourself from the movies. Okay, you mention like an assault rifle. They teach you how to fire it from the shoulder, but nobody does this in all practicality. You're either in the prone on the ground or firing supported... or you've got it from the hip (yes like Rambo) BUT you also have a shoulder belt that bears most of the weight. Now, to be fair... if you're going in guns blazing with one big long burst, you're not going to get accuracy. That's a simple fact of recoil, force, and all that science jazz. Ideally, you'd be firing short bursts. Three-round is what they teach you. I can't be certain, but I'm pretty sure I have fired one-round shots from a drum. Oh- the belt. It's linked rounds from a drum, not a belt that you sling over your shoulder like a gay Chuck Norris movie. The ammo comes from a drum that's attached to the underside of the weapon, not a clip. Although it can fire from an M16 magazine... but only a desperate out-of-ammo gunner would be doing this.

Point- I've fired from the hip. It was not strenuous on my arm. Para-SAW or regular. I did fire it from the shoulder and yes, it was difficult, but they only teach familiarization. No dumbfuck in his right mind wants to do that all day.

Originally Posted by dscytherulez

The recoil on a SAW, I "hear" (Again, I've never fired one but one of my best friends is in the army) is terrible. Bad recoil leads to bad accuracy.

It's true purpose is for squad support, not Rambo style headshots from 400 meters.

Nobody's talking about Rambo headshots from 400 meters... yes, it's a team/squad support weapon. I never noticed the recoil being bad, let alone terrible. But then, if you're firing like a stupid maniac with the trigger all the way back, then you deserve whatever shit accuracy you get... along with the glowing red-hot warped barrel that will invariably result.

Oh by the way. I've engaged targets with a SAW at over 400 meters. I've hit targets at 800 meters. You can make headshots at 400 meters, if you have time and nominal conditions and are an above-average shooter. Furthermore. You can actually, with modifications such as an optical sight, turn the SAW into a mini-sniper rifle... provided you've got excellent trigger control and you're leaning into the bi-pod.

ControlledBurn · 2004-05-03, 10:26 PM

http://students.db.erau.edu/~papageod/AK47-1.jpg
http://students.db.erau.edu/~papageod/AK47-2.jpg

Linked because the pictures are huge, and forgive the bitch hipping I'm doing in the first picture.

AztecWarrior · 2004-05-03, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by ControlledBurn

The Romanian SAR-1s cost like $300 and are quite abundant, I wouldn't doubt his dad has one.

We have one, but I don't have a camera.

dscytherulez · 2004-05-03, 10:51 PM

Half of the shit, no, no, 3/4 of the shit you posted, wasn't even replying to your post firefly. Fuck off, read before you talk.

Setari · 2004-05-03, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by dscytherulez

Half of the shit, no, no, 3/4 of the shit you posted, wasn't even replying to your post firefly. Fuck off, read before you talk.

actually just so you know, snipers that fire at distances of 800m+ most often in the army are trained to aim for the center of mass, aka the chest.

ControlledBurn · 2004-05-03, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by dscytherulez

Half of the shit, no, no, 3/4 of the shit you posted, wasn't even replying to your post firefly. Fuck off, read before you talk.

So just because it wasn't written with him in mind means it doesn't matter? Get your shit together kid, you got owned with facts.

dscytherulez · 2004-05-03, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by Setari

actually just so you know, snipers that fire at distances of 800m+ most often in the army are trained to aim for the center of mass, aka the chest.

Indeed, plus they have spotters. I did say it wasn't for breaking down scientifically though

.

dscytherulez · 2004-05-03, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by ControlledBurn

So just because it wasn't written with him in mind means it doesn't matter? Get your shit together kid, you got owned with facts.

And you sir, just wasted at least an hour arguing with a 15 y/o about guns on a PlanetSide forum. Get your shit together adult, you got owned by the baby police.

ControlledBurn · 2004-05-03, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by dscytherulez

And you sir, just wasted at least an hour arguing with a 15 y/o about guns on a PlanetSide forum. Get your shit together adult, you got owned by the baby police.

I was at work, I didn't have much else to do kiddo, so arguing weapons on a forum was a good distraction, even if I had to throw facts in some random forum kiddies face.

Firefly · 2004-05-03, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by dscytherulez

Half of the shit, no, no, 3/4 of the shit you posted, wasn't even replying to your post firefly. Fuck off, read before you talk.

I did read it, dicklips. What I posted wasn't replying to my post, you're right. It's replying to your post. Now I'm trying to be nice about this but if you're gonna PMS about it, then take a fuckin Midol. Either try to be clearer when YOU talk, or generally keep your fucking mouth shut when you're running on flapping your dicksmackers when you don't know what you're talking about.

Which is highly evident by your series of posts when you finally had to admit you knew jack and shit about a SAW.

Dharkbayne · 2004-05-03, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by ControlledBurn

So just because it wasn't written with him in mind means it doesn't matter? Get your shit together kid, you got owned with facts.

dscytherulez · 2004-05-03, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by ControlledBurn

I was at work, I didn't have much else to do kiddo, so arguing weapons on a forum was a good distraction, even if I had to throw facts in some random forum kiddies face.

I'm calling your boss. You should have been working. And, you really didn't tell my ANYTHING I didn't know already. You've proved nothing. I've seen no proof of how g-unit-riffic ramboing with a saw is. I've seen no proof that a .357 has "SOOOOO" much more recoil than a colt .45 (Which I've fired both, one after another, and noticed only a slight difference.). You've done nothing but throw your opinion into your posts. This whole thread was not about realism or how special you think you are because you're a gun-nut terrorist, who will probably end up going AWOL and shooting up some damn school in the middle of Arizona. It was completely about "Geez, how cool would be be to do *thisthattheotherthing*". But you fruitcakes spoiled it. Nice job there, you mature adults you. Indeed, truly nice work.

Setari · 2004-05-03, 11:12 PM

so if we've got some people that have been around guns for a while i have a few questions. Ever fired a Sig 550? If so how did it feel? Can you comment on the accuracy and quality of the rifle?

Sputty · 2004-05-03, 11:31 PM

You can argue about small arms all you want, but my 120mm owns all of you.

Edit: Also, Firefly is right.