Now that OSOK are confirmed, Should Sniper Work/Sacrifice for it?

[Traak]

The steady repeating of "find better cover" as a response to "we don't want overpowered snipers" isn't valid. Neither is "he will be immediately vaporized by a cloaker" etc. Making the few who are snipers able to kill anyone, anywhere, with one shot and no warning doesn't just unbalance the game, it ruins it. The rest of us don't want the game to consist of hiding 99.999999999999999999999999999999% of the time and the rest of the time dying to snipers 2.4km away.

Sniping was annoying enough in PS1. The idea is not to ruin the game for the vast majority of players so a few people can enjoy their stupidly overpowered weapons. Especially weapons that can strike from very long distances.

Was it great fun, really augmenting gameplay when a Flail or three were spamming the CY and Vpad? Oh, yes, fun for the dual-account, one-on-each-empire flail spammers, but how many others just quit playing?

Long distance instagib weapons are great for using in the real world. In PS, they just hinder a large number of people from enjoying the game for the benefit of very exceedingly few. As I said, if you have such a fetish for instagib, play Unreal Tournament in games where everyone has the same weapon.

But, as I said, an unfair and game-breaking advantage isn't as much fun when someone other than YOU has it. OSK sniping is like being a mugger who preys on blind people.

We want to be able to engage in combat, and support therefor. Not spend our time cowering behind cover to give some immature little MEMEMEMEME child the ability to reign over the battlespace.

[Lunarchild]

Well, let's see Traak, if I read your post correctly I think I should point you to another weapon that will one shot kill MULTIPLE people from similar distances as snipers, however they will also do so (and a lot more) at low ranges. Let me mention that it will be EASIER to kill people with this weapon than with a sniper rifle, especially with the physics in PlanetSide 2. Let me mention that this weapon also one shot killed multiple people in PlanetSide. Meet the main battle tank: not only is it easier to one shot kill with this, it is also harder to kill than any sniper. It does not require a headshot, or even a direct hit to kill a person in one shot with this weapon. And yet no-one seems to mind.

[Fuel Truck]

Originally Posted by Lunarchild

Well, let's see Traak, if I read your post correctly I think I should point you to another weapon that will one shot kill MULTIPLE people from similar distances as snipers, however they will also do so (and a lot more) at low ranges. Let me mention that it will be EASIER to kill people with this weapon than with a sniper rifle, especially with the physics in PlanetSide 2. Let me mention that this weapon also one shot killed multiple people in PlanetSide. Meet the main battle tank: not only is it easier to one shot kill with this, it is also harder to kill than any sniper. It does not require a headshot, or even a direct hit to kill a person in one shot with this weapon. And yet no-one seems to mind.

Good point, I'll start the pointless thread with a retarded poll about how to make them useless because I don't like it!! /end lil' trakky

[Traak]

You are comparing an MBT to an infantry soldier? Okay.

No, my thread about the merits of having the ability of any class of infantry to OSK snipers being an unlockable ability or an implant is a counterpoint to this. Some, as in those who are snipers, want OSK's. No one else does.

So, I turned it around so you could see how your arguments for snipers having the OP OSK capability look when turned around so everyone can OSK snipers, but snipers remain the same as in PS1, as far as range and damage.

Feel free to debate. You want sniper OSK's. Others may not want that, but, instead want snipers to be the ones that others can OSK, as a tradeoff for the increased range of being a sniper. Why should every other class of infantry be subject to the sniper having OSK? Why not the other way around instead?

[Captain B]

"Making the few who are snipers able to kill anyone, anywhere, with one shot and no warning doesn't just unbalance the game, it ruins it."

Just wanted to point out, snipers can't kill anyone "anywhere". Only in open field combat, same place tanks and aircraft and MAXes can drop infantry with similar impunity while simultaneously gaining ground. A sniper killing anyone in close quarters is a damn lucky sniper.

[Traak]

Gifting anyone in the game with point-target OSK is bad for the game as a whole.

PS was not created so no one could move anywhere without having to duck and cower to and from cover. It breaks the gameplay to have OSK's.

The snipers, of course, are lobbying for OSK's. No one should have OSK's. For those who are too blinded by selfishness to understand that, it means against the same class.

Of course tanks can instagib soldiers. But exalting any class of infantry to the god-like status of being able to deal out instant death? No. Not for Planetside. As I said, if you are so enamored of the idea, go play your games where everyone is OSK-capable. But those games aren't fun enough for you because they don't furnish you with an overwhelming long-distance advantage you are trying to pervert Planetside with.

Planetside wasn't created just so snipers would have a way of souring the whole open field. If you want to have more power in the open field, get a vehicle or plane. Handing you a kill button as a soldier is not the solution.

I also notice that this poll is also slanted, in not having the following options: Keep sniper range and damage like PS1, and No OSK's under any circumstances.

[Captain B]

Snipers don't hurt tanks, aircraft or MAXes (assuming these basics will remain in PS2). If they hurt MAXes, MAXes are too weak, not snipers being too strong (because then any infantry could dakka-dakka them into the ground with ease).

Long distance advantage? Yeeeessss... Against infantry. Encourages the use of vehicles and buggies and sommuh mah buses to get from A to B safely. For those on foot, cloaking and jumppacks increase maneuverability and flexibility to reach the objective in tact. For the rest, cover. Sniper rounds do not explode. You cannot blow up a dude behind a tree with a sniper round.

Take a deep breath. Honestly, you make it sound like your parents were killed by snipers and you've had all these years in a cave to brood over it. They aren't that bad. Not to mention "long distance" - it's already been mentioned by the devs that there's bullet trajectory. Simply putting the 6-year-old FPS cross-hairs onto a person and clicking isn't going to guarantee a hit, much less a head shot that can insta-kill. Deep breaths, now.

[BorisBlade]

Another thing to consider is how the CoF will work, will it be like PS1 where it had to "calm down" or is it like so many other awful games where its just a crosshair and you can line it up on the run if you were so inclined. Plus will there be one shot and then reload or are you gettin one shot kills and semi auto fire (which is completely absurd). Those two things alone make a HUGE difference.

Its one thing to get OSK's but have to reload after each shot and be sitting still taking a careful shot, its another to be able to go on a rapid killing spree or fire while moving like a certain other FPS we all mention too much.

[Traak]

Please refrain from emotionally-charged sarcasm and rhetoric. It makes you look childish and stupid.

And further demonstrates my point that OSK's are not good for the game overall, but just touted by childishly selfish people.

[Raka Maru]

Originally Posted by Traak

The steady repeating of "find better cover" as a response to "we don't want overpowered snipers" isn't valid. Neither is "he will be immediately vaporized by a cloaker" etc. Making the few who are snipers able to kill anyone, anywhere, with one shot and no warning doesn't just unbalance the game, it ruins it. The rest of us don't want the game to consist of hiding 99.999999999999999999999999999999% of the time and the rest of the time dying to snipers 2.4km away.

Find better cover.

Don't expect to stroll around leisurely in a field while your squad pushes forward.

Sniping was annoying enough in PS1. The idea is not to ruin the game for the vast majority of players so a few people can enjoy their stupidly overpowered weapons. Especially weapons that can strike from very long distances.

Was it great fun, really augmenting gameplay when a Flail or three were spamming the CY and Vpad? Oh, yes, fun for the dual-account, one-on-each-empire flail spammers, but how many others just quit playing?

Long distance instagib weapons are great for using in the real world. In PS, they just hinder a large number of people from enjoying the game for the benefit of very exceedingly few. As I said, if you have such a fetish for instagib, play Unreal Tournament in games where everyone has the same weapon.

When I'm not sniping, I like to go seeking out enemy sniper nests. It's really called tactics. Calling a play style immature just 'cuz you're not trading MCG ammo across a short distance is short sighted and you talk about people not wanting to play, but you keep sending others to a different game.

But, as I said, an unfair and game-breaking advantage isn't as much fun when someone other than YOU has it. OSK sniping is like being a mugger who preys on blind people.

We want to be able to engage in combat, and support therefor. Not spend our time cowering behind cover to give some immature little MEMEMEMEME child the ability to reign over the battlespace.

...

[Jimmuc]

i can't think of one FPS game out of the many FPS games i've played where snipers ruled the battlefield over everyone else hmmm....


nope can't think of one

[Helwyr]

As a sniper some of the time in PS1 I wouldn't really want OSK in PS2, not without a lot of difficulty in getting that head shot. The price of being OPed is having all the fair-weather powergamers cramping your style, Didn't seem to bother the Aircav HA/AV crowd in PS1 but I'd rather take a pass on that. ...then again, my no.1 favorite means killing people was with a knife in PS1, so maybe I should be pushing for OPered sniping.

Hopefully Sniping is well balanced. This thread though and a few others on the issue I don't really get, some of the posts border on hysteria over sniping. Which I find ironic given there's no panic over various other circumstances that will get you killed near instantly with no or little means of response. Also in terms of balance it isn't really shots to kill that is a determining factor but time to kill, combined of course with other factors such as range, accuracy, bloom due to movement, etc.

Didn't bother voting in the poll.

[Captain B]

No kidding. You'd think with "anyone can cert leadership" and "orbital strikes are back in" you'd be seeing a thousand threads about the sky falling (literally, in this case) with everyone being able to summon orbitals (conjecture, of course, but no different than this). But no, instead we ask, what's the ultimate threat to game balance and will single-handedly conquer battle fields and storm bases?

Snipers.

Wow. Swing and a miss.

[Traak]

Originally Posted by Captain B

...you'd be seeing a thousand threads about the sky falling (literally, in this case)

That was funny, I have to admit.

Originally Posted by Captain B

...with everyone being able to summon orbitals (conjecture, of course, but no different than this). But no, instead we ask, what's the ultimate threat to game balance and will single-handedly conquer battle fields and storm bases?

Snipers.

Ah, but the big difference is that CR's don't have a clip or pack loaded with 20 orbital strikes that are fired and land instantaneously. They can't theoretically do 30 orbital strikes per minute, or whatever the ROF of a sniper weapon is in PS2. In PS1, it was 1 every 180 minutes, and it has about a five second fire-to-impact time for the person who wants to avoid it.

To be a similar level of threat, sniper headshots would have to have a five-second warning klaxon for the person who is being targeted, and only be able to be fired once every 180 minutes/avg. number of OS kills per OS.

That is a huge difference.

[Hamma]

I get the feeling you aren't a fan of Snipers Traak..