Dual-Wielding - Page 8

atone · 2011-09-18, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Just because John Woo made it look cool doesn't mean its practical. Its dumb, nobody does this IRL for a reason, it just looks good when Chow Yun Fat does it.

just thought of this when i read your post

XPquant · 2011-09-18, 10:18 PM

I really like the idea of an off-hand quick access item or weapon. You could implement it as its own tree and have corresponding unlocks in other trees for uber ambidexterity. I think that would go well with the idea of faster pacing over all, before its dual wielding its a secondary weapon quick slot instantly accessed but not in conjunction with the mean weapon, before that it's an item quick slot. There are a lot of possibilities in this line of thinking.

The cynical jerks who seem to infest these forums have offered no real reason why it's not a selling point to dual wield, only that it's dumb/unrealistic/unbalanced. It is clear you do not want change you personally don't like, whether it affects game-play positively or not. Dual wielding would only increase the possibilities for fun.

P.S. All of these posts are fantastical conjecture, why troll?

**Malorn** · 2011-09-18, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by XPquant

The cynical jerks who seem to infest these forums have offered no real reason why it's not a selling point to dual wield, only that it's dumb/unrealistic/unbalanced. It is clear you do not want change you personally don't like, whether it affects game-play positively or not. Dual wielding would only increase the possibilities for fun.

P.S. All of these posts are fantastical conjecture, why troll?

Name-calling - great way to prove your point!

Immersiveness and "feel" of the game are important. Those who don't like it for "realism" or whatever do so becuase it goes against their immersive feel of planetside 2.

Personally, there is a long line of things I would rather see the devs spend art, animation, coding, and balancing time on than this sort of needless feature creep that has nothing to do with core gameplay.

atone · 2011-09-18, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Name-calling - great way to prove your point!

Immersiveness and "feel" of the game are important. Those who don't like it for "realism" or whatever do so becuase it goes against their immersive feel of planetside 2.

Personally, there is a long line of things I would rather see the devs spend art, animation, coding, and balancing time on than this sort of needless feature creep that has nothing to do with core gameplay.

i like that, immersive feel of a game they never played. jokes aside. your right, there is a long list of better things to work on, but given the choice is it that bad?

Sirisian · 2011-09-18, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Name-calling - great way to prove your point!

Originally Posted by Malorn

That blogger was clearly molested by UO when he was younger and rocks in a corner crying himself to sleep when he's not on his personal quest to stop the spread of MMOs.

I read your post in the other thread and then saw this. I think it's safe to say that if we're gonna argue we should point out faults with people's arguments and explain our own thoughts and opinions without resorting to name calling.

Originally Posted by Malorn

Immersiveness and "feel" of the game are important. Those who don't like it for "realism" or whatever do so becuase it goes against their immersive feel of planetside 2.

Agreed. That is a very legitimate reason not to like dual wielding. However, it's important for people that feel that way to say what they don't want dual wielded. Some people don't like dual pistols, but are fine with grenade in one hand an pistol in the other and some are against allowing such gameplay.

Originally Posted by Malorn

Personally, there is a long line of things I would rather see the devs spend art, animation, coding, and balancing time on than this sort of needless feature creep that has nothing to do with core gameplay.

It could be part of the core gameplay. That's why it's important to get these ideas out while the developers are still reading about them.

**Malorn** · 2011-09-19, 02:04 AM

I was stating fact about the blogger.

And no this isn't part of core gameplay. It's somewhere between "nice to have" and "unnecessary"

Wahooo · 2011-09-19, 11:24 AM

Dual wielding... yeah! Twice the damage with no down side sounds Teh Awsome!

I would be ok with Dual wielding weapons if there was an over the top significant nerf to aiming AND reload time was 3X or greater than with a single weapon.

Dual wielding weapons (especially shotguns), quick knives (especially OHK from 10' away) and OHK headshots from automatic spray weapons are some of the worst mechanics to enter FPS games ever and I would be very dissapointed if PS2 was released with these. So far it sounds like their Headshots are being handled ok, and that there is a talk of dissagreements with the quick knives hopefully the right side of that argument wins out.

**Malorn** · 2011-09-19, 11:30 AM

Some folks wont' be happy unless PS2 is a MMO Halo game.

Traak · 2011-09-19, 12:33 PM

If you want dual-wielding, get a TR max! w00t!

Sirisian · 2011-09-19, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Wahooo

Dual wielding... yeah! Twice the damage with no down side sounds Teh Awsome!

I would be ok with Dual wielding weapons if there was an over the top significant nerf to aiming AND reload time was 3X or greater than with a single weapon.

This is the kind of constructive posts that I like to see. Pointing out problems and finding solutions to make them work. It's interesting when people view a problem like this and ignore then balancing issues.

Originally Posted by Wahooo

Dual wielding weapons (especially shotguns), quick knives (especially OHK from 10' away) and OHK headshots from automatic spray weapons are some of the worst mechanics to enter FPS games ever and I would be very dissapointed if PS2 was released with these. So far it sounds like their Headshots are being handled ok, and that there is a talk of dissagreements with the quick knives hopefully the right side of that argument wins out.

Balance would be key. Dual shotguns for instance would either need to be a no go because they're pump shotguns for instance or they would need to be balanced artificially via modifiers. Not a fan of dual knives one-hitting either. I think you'll find a large group of people here that agree with your comments about balancing those sort of things for infiltrator/assault classes.

Originally Posted by Malorn

Some folks wont' be happy unless PS2 is a MMO Halo game.

I don't think this has anything to do with Halo. It's more about giving players options and increasing the choices a player has when they enter a situation. Also can you be a bit more constructive with your comments. You're not really explaining what you don't like. Is it the weapon dual wielding? Which ones? All of them?

It would be really nice to see off-hand ranged medic abilities along with a weapon during combat among other things that this opens up. I had never even thought of dual wielding knives until someone brought it up. Talk about a cloaking rogue class.

Originally Posted by Traak

If you want dual-wielding, get a TR max! w00t!

Actually all the Max units can have weapons on both hands and they are interchangeable. This was explained a while back.

XPquant · 2011-09-19, 02:00 PM

I didn't mean to hurt your feelings Malorn ;p . Instead of writing an essay on how mean and baseless most of these posts are I just kept it short, sweet and broad. You have to admit the tone in these forums have more hate mongering fan bois then usual and it's cumbersome to have even a simple discussion on human's using two hands instead of one in a game. I'm used to more considerate posters I guess, all this talking down to people is taking some getting used to.

If you act like a jerk I have to call you on it, it's my nature. The fact you boiled my post down to 'name calling' shows you have no substance to bring against me. I presented multiple aspects of the same point and you did not address them. Still haven't seen any real point's on why the mechanics of using two hands in-game is bad at all period. It's interesting your talking about the core game-play of a game that only exists in our imagination at this point. We won't really know anything about this game till beta, then you can talk about Planetside 2 core game-play. Planetside was always about possibilities, even the ones you don't like.

Even without 'akimbo' the concept of using your off hand is a great mechanic, Sirisian outlined it perfectly. Being able to use some handheld non weapon equipment while still retaining a pistol would just give support players a more rewarding tree progression and some sense of security.

Now without saying the words: realistic (cause humans don't use two hands independently), unbalanced (because the devs are incompetent?), Halo (Halo sure made a lot more money then Planetside), dev cost (adding more dynamic gameplay could never pay off in sales), 'core' gameplay (see above) or john woo (I cannot believe you 'blame' Hollywood for the concept of using two single handed weapons at once), tell me why this is a flawed game concept for Planetside 2.

Wahooo · 2011-09-19, 02:09 PM

Yeah why blame Jon Woo? Yosemite Sam was dual wielding long before Woo's movies came around.

2coolforu · 2011-09-19, 02:38 PM

It's effectively impossible to make a dual-wielded variant of a weapon balanced, they are either vastly better than a single weapon or so bad noone will ever want it ever.

With a pistol the range at which you use them is so short that accuracy was irrelevant from the start, therefore a 100% increase in DPS is vastly better than the 50% decrease in accuracy or 100% decrease in accuracy.

"Now without saying the words: realistic (cause humans don't use two hands independently), unbalanced (because the devs are incompetent?), Halo (Halo sure made a lot more money then Planetside), dev cost (adding more dynamic gameplay could never pay off in sales), 'core' gameplay (see above) or john woo (I cannot believe you 'blame' Hollywood for the concept of using two single handed weapons at once), tell me why this is a flawed game concept for Planetside 2. "

So BALANCE isn't a major component of whether something should be in a game or not? Dev time that could be used implementing two-man tanks or CE or a deployable galaxy fortress should instead be used on just doubling an existing weapon?

As for "Halo sure made a lot more money than Planetside" you should know a few things

1) Just because the majority flock to something does not mean it's a good idea or right. The average person is a fuck-tard, this is common knowledge, groups of people are even dumber

2) Console gamers flock from game to game, this is because a lot of the current console generation games are fads. Just like no-one cares about Halo 2, Battlefield:Bad Company, CoD 1, 2, 3, 5 Gears of War, Ressistance 1 or 2 in the future noone will care about MW3 or Gears of War 3. I don't see people saying "Oh Boy, CoD 3/5 sure was that one unique memory to me! Hell that game was awesome", I don't see people saying "No FIFA 10 was the classic, FIFA 09 Sucked dick!" "Battlefield Bad Company was waaay better than BF2!". Just like boy bands were famous, the Spice Girls and S-Club 7 had huge success, these game-mill series will be forgotten as just spamming the same thing over and over again.

I mean CoD 4 is generally regarded as a good game but does that mean we should take martyrdom, one of the most hated perks out of it? Or should we take the Frag x3 perk? A popular game can have shitty ideas. Hell Black Ops is the most sold game of all time yet the vast majority of PC Gamers hate it.

Look at the games that are still played, BF2 has thousands of servers still. AoE 2 is still played, PC Gamer still reminisces about the old Planetside and Deus Ex is regarded as one of the best games of all time yet these sold far, far less than CoD. Quantity =/= Quality. How many people play CoD 5, 4, 3 on the Xbox 360

Most played games 2010

Call of Duty: Black Ops
Halo: Reach
Red Dead Redemption
Fable III
Battlefield: Bad Co. 2
Medal of Honor
Mass Effect 2
FIFA Soccer 11
Fallout: New Vegas
BioShock 2

Yeah, MW2 and all the CoD's are dead, CoD 4 probably has at peak a few thousand players. Effectively 90% of the Xbox playerbase is in those 10 games, CoD games are a fad just as the Backstreet Boys, Busted, Justin Bieber, Facebook or Michael Bay movies are fads that will be long forgotten in very little time compared to other products in the same genres.

People buy CoD because it's the "next big thing", it's brand loyalty, they release them every year and once the new one comes out the old one is dead and forgotten. At least Planetside 1 had 3 or so big years and is still remembered as being unique until this time.

But anyway, what does duel wielding really add, I mean, why should we spend all this time animating and making two pistols. I get the equipment idea, that sounds pretty cool, but I don't see what two pistols would add at all. Why not add a unique weapon that's closer ranged and more damaging and make it common pool?

XPquant · 2011-09-19, 03:52 PM

Your seriously suggesting it is not within the devs ability to refine this concept down to balance? It is beyond the capability of human engineering to have a game simulation of akimbo weapons that isn't broken?

nomotog · 2011-09-19, 04:02 PM

Dual-Wielding with tools is a very good idea. I allows you to pack some heat well still having your med-kit or other side tool tool equipped. I was going to suggest the idea myself.

Dose dual-wielding two weapons add anything?

Well ya kind of. It's a good way to breath power into a intentionally weak weapon. Maybe the pistol is a weak because it's meant to be used sparingly. At the same time, you want some classes to use them as effective weapons. Dubbing up is just a quick way to do that.

The next one is the wielding two weapons that fill different rolls. A an armor pistol in one hand and a anti infantry pistol in the other. It gives the player flexibility to engage a larger verity of targets.