TR Max lockdown - Not again! - Page 8

BorisBlade · 2011-10-04, 07:52 PM

Guys, you are totally ignoring the fact that lock down can work just fine if its done right. No it wasnt right in ps1 but there isnt some law saying we cant change it, no one said we were goin to put it in just like ps1, you would have to be slow in the head to think that.

Like i said you have to adress its downsides, add a damage taken reduction % while planted to help with taking alot more damage, or some other way to help with being a sitting duck. Maybe a shield that deploys in a 180 arc thats waist high that blocks shots, or somethin.

There are a zillion ways to make it work and make it very cool, just saying "no it sux" cause it sucked in ps1 is just completely idiotic. And yes, overdrive must be in there too, lockdown cant be used offensively so overdrive fills that void (an alternative would work, but just needs somethin offensive and overdrive worked well for that).

Kalbuth · 2011-10-04, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by Graywolves

the problem with lockdown isn't that Lockdown itself gimps the MAX.

It's that our MAX's suck when not locked down and then when locked down we're on an even playing field with the other max's who can move, jump, and shield themselves.

Even playing field? LOL, exageration FTW!
Hard facts, plz. Like : Locked down Burster kill reaver faster than any other MAX. Same for Pounder vs armor.

"even playing field" ....

GTGD · 2011-10-04, 08:42 PM

TR, learn to form an argument and stay consistent on what side you are on:

1. Listen to the people who are currently playing the TR, as they understand how it is better than anyone else. Also accept that the NC were correct that the Jackhammer wasn't overpowered before the tripleshot nerf, and that it should be returned to its original power.

2. Accept that the people who are currently playing the TR are crying because their MAX isn't absurdly broken. The NC were crying when the Jackhammer was nerfed because then they couldn't instagib others.

Graywolves · 2011-10-04, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by Kalbuth

Even playing field? LOL, exageration FTW!
Hard facts, plz. Like : Locked down Burster kill reaver faster than any other MAX. Same for Pounder vs armor.

"even playing field" ....

Actually all you need to do is position yourself in a good place with the VS AA Max and not target them until they are close or in another bad placement for themselves and you have yourself a kill.

Escaping the Burster isn't hard, Afterburn away, it's not like the flak locks on. Plus, I said with other MAX's. Taking something out of context and typing LOL isn't an arguement.

Your "hard facts" are severely lacking.

And let's not get started on the Jackhammer...

Kalbuth · 2011-10-05, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by Graywolves

Actually all you need to do is position yourself in a good place with the VS AA Max and not target them until they are close or in another bad placement for themselves and you have yourself a kill.

Escaping the Burster isn't hard, Afterburn away, it's not like the flak locks on. Plus, I said with other MAX's. Taking something out of context and typing LOL isn't an arguement.

Your "hard facts" are severely lacking.

And let's not get started on the Jackhammer...

You break a Starfire lockon by putting a simple obstacle between you and the Starfire. Once you get the beep, just rush the nearest tree, hill, whatever. You have time to do it even from a stop position. Which is not true when under fire of a locked-down Burster, if you are hovering at this point, you have less time to escape than vs SF.
Saying that "lock down" ability just put TR MAXes back on par with other MAXes is just exaggeration, Lock Down gives them more power than their counterpart. Exception being DC at point blank range vs Scatter, but it's only at point blank, and I can agree DC is not on par with other AI MAXes, no pb on that.

I can't find Tippis stats site anymore, everything you needed on TTKs was there. Showing that locked down TR MAXes had lower TTKs on their intended targets than their NC/VS counterparts
Not even talking about why I'm convinced that direct damage is better than a lock down system which is only good at scaring away people (and giving up your position), not actually killing your target.

You are not going to convince people by making things worse than they truely are. Personally, it just make me laugh and depicts TRs as the "new" (well, we hear about this since 2006 now) whiney Empire, thing that we VS were specialists back in 2003

Redshift · 2011-10-05, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by Kalbuth

Saying that "lock down" ability just put TR MAXes back on par with other MAXes is just exaggeration, Lock Down gives them more power than their counterpart. Exception being DC at point blank range vs Scatter, but it's only at point blank, and I can agree DC is not on par with other AI MAXes, no pb on that.

Yes the main problem is that unlocked they are no where near on par, and that in certain situations lockdown makes them too strong.
We need all AI MAXes range to be similar to a scatter so they fit they're roll better, they all need to do similar dps. If lockdown is to remain it needs to be more like overdrive, on a capacitor and for a short amount of time, i'd find it acceptible to have essentially overdrive that roots you in place for its duration, that's balancable.

And this isn't by anymeans the only thing that needs looking at, i completly agree the VS need a HA that doesn't suck, and personally i'd say the NC need an AV that doesn't gimp them (half the zerg hiding shooting it at troops, is bad for the NC)

Accuser · 2011-10-05, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Redshift

We need all AI MAXes range to be similar to a scatter so they fit they're roll better, they all need to do similar dps. If lockdown is to remain it needs to be more like overdrive, on a capacitor and for a short amount of time, i'd find it acceptible to have essentially overdrive that roots you in place for its duration, that's balancable.

I'm pretty sure I argued for a lockdown that provided both a damage and defense buff earlier and you rejected it in a hurry. That's overdrive+root! I just think lockdown (or if you want to call it "overdrive+root") should be unlimited and not require use of a capacitor.

I think you're assuming that every AI MAX should have the role of being the first into a base, soaking up damage, and doing a lot of damage at short range. There's no reason for every AI MAX to function in the same way like that. I kind of expect the tradition to continue of having NC having the best MAX to push into a base, the TR having the best MAX for static defense and the VS having the most mobile/agile MAX which will hopefully be most viable outdoors.

Redshift · 2011-10-05, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Accuser

I think you're assuming that every AI MAX should have the role of being the first into a base, soaking up damage, and doing a lot of damage at short range.

There's every reason for that, we have a class system, if the heavy troops of one empire can not push forward we'll have a problem.

And the difference i've suggested in the lockdown is essentially putting it on a capacitor and making it instant, lockdown can't be balanced without a capacitor because it's essentially 2 different levels of dps, if you have a capacitor it is a short dps boost, it is very different.

BUGGER · 2011-10-05, 06:34 PM

The best part about lockdown was having three Rexo's with engineer certs behind you. That said, the best part about lockdown was that they'd repair you 5 times so you could kill one baddie. That said, the best part about lockdown is nothing.

Because you're trading off 100% of your mobility you should be giving that 100% of your mobility to either your guns or defense. Personally, i believe it should be both.

I feel the downfall to the TR Max was when they switched the Anti-Vehicle/Anti-Infantry Maxes around. An AI-Pounder Max surely had a chance in lockdown when his spray was an entire doorway, fear the ring of fire. But a Cycler Max was nothing. Shooting BB's with sniperrifle accuracy at speeds uncomprehencable sounds nice, but put him inside a zerged tower with choppy framerates and slight lag nerfs him to a freshly spawned zergling.

That said, either those Cyclers better shoot explosive rounds or he better turn into Fort Knox when he hunkers down in the doorway or I'm getting my greencard in the NC.

NapalmEnima · 2011-10-05, 06:49 PM

IIRC it was the TR punders that wanted the switch: too much grief. Splash weapons in close quarters inevitably damaged friendlies, particularly when some damned fool chased down your grenades and got themselves spattered.

But it's been a long time...

BUGGER · 2011-10-05, 06:58 PM

Yeah that was a big reason for the switch too. But that's what the grief system was instated for. I still get grief regardless with a Cycler Max when an idiot is pacing back and forth in front of me. But I feel that only happens because I'm not the nuke throwing Max and a player feels it is safe because a Cycler only throws peas. Regardless, grief is gonna happen, enemy kills may not.

Xyntech · 2011-10-05, 07:08 PM

It would be cool if there was an anti grief system, where the people who were always running in front of bullets and vehicles and into explosions of their empire wouldn't generate as many grief points for players.

Obviously it would need to be capped to a certain amount of reduction for each player, squad and outfit to discourage a group from singling out a random person to start TKing.

I guess we don't know enough about PS2's grief system yet though.

Kouza · 2011-10-05, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Xyntech

It would be cool if there was an anti grief system, where the people who were always running in front of bullets and vehicles and into explosions of their empire wouldn't generate as many grief points for players.

Obviously it would need to be capped to a certain amount of reduction for each player, squad and outfit to discourage a group from singling out a random person to start TKing.

I guess we don't know enough about PS2's grief system yet though.

Yes lets further encourage people to not attack

PLEASE.

(I was grief locked three times in planet side... Twice it was doing its job, the other was in an INTERLINK defending... With the Grief Grabbing Maelstrom. I have played on-off for 5 years)

THE GRIEF SYSTEM IS WORKING.

Xyntech · 2011-10-05, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by Kouza

Yes lets further encourage people to not attack

PLEASE.

(I was grief locked three times in planet side... Twice it was doing its job, the other was in an INTERLINK defending... With the Grief Grabbing Maelstrom. I have played on-off for 5 years)

THE GRIEF SYSTEM IS WORKING.

The idea is to avoid punishing someone for somebody ELSE running in front of them. Remember that this will happen a lot more when you bring in a huge batch of new players.

If you aren't paying attention and shoot me? You deserve some grief points. If you are shooting with the enemy directly in front of your cross hairs and some idiot with a history of running in front of friendly fire runs in front of you, you don't deserve to be penalized for it.

The grief system works, but it's not perfect. No harm in trying to improve it.

Like I said, for all we know PS2 handles it completely differently. I'm sure we will have a ton of people bitching about it if they did change it, no matter if it works better or not.

Kouza · 2011-10-05, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by Xyntech

The idea is to avoid punishing someone for somebody ELSE running in front of them. Remember that this will happen a lot more when you bring in a huge batch of new players.

If you aren't paying attention and shoot me? You deserve some grief points. If you are shooting with the enemy directly in front of your cross hairs and some idiot with a history of running in front of friendly fire runs in front of you, you don't deserve to be penalized for it.

The grief system works, but it's not perfect. No harm in trying to improve it.

Like I said, for all we know PS2 handles it completely differently. I'm sure we will have a ton of people bitching about it if they did change it, no matter if it works better or not.

If you find your having an issue getting grief locked a lot. Learn 2 Aim.

Like I said... I find getting grief locked VERY hard when using an actual gun... AOE weapons..... With more damage comes more grief. Thats your trade off.