The downside of F2P (lol at the web comic) - Page 8

HELLFISH88 · 2011-10-14, 06:53 PM

Oh man, where to start...what to say that hasn't already been said....

A few things:

What was Planetside's initial problem? Marketing and exposure. FTP Allows the game to spread quickly via Word of mouth and or other social means. When your friend ask's you to play WoW, you can always counter with the Lack of Money argument, be it legitimately or simply out of laziness or disinterest. I would like to think most people will try anything free at least once. Especially those who enjoy gaming but may not be able to afford to play. I'm looking at you; people who still play Runescape and argue "they can't afford a new computer"

I think FTP will be good for Planetside 2. It SHOULD give us the exposure we have so long desired. We KNOW planetside is a Good game; therefore we just need to get people exposed to it in order for it to expand. Most of the people I speak to planetside about don't think it's a bad game....they simply didn't know it existed at all. That is BIG problem. Especially considering how over saturated and repetitive the shooter market has become. Planetside is genuinely unique. We have a Hook, and it's a damn sharp one.

I'm really excited and pleased with SOE's approach to FTP. I think the LoL Format works, Balance is the key

ThGlump · 2011-10-14, 07:06 PM

Yea but what you pay for in WOT? Tank is one time purchase, no money after that. Rest is premium sub and consumables. Thats about it. Smed said they dont like idea of time limited equip purchases, and unless there will be some consumables in cash shop, there will be minimum purchases after first few months when ppl decide they dont need xp boost anymore.
There wont be new stronger guns every 3 months, and you dont need 10 variants of same gun. You dont need new uniform because you want to keep in outfit theme. F2P can earn money, but it cant earn it only from newcomers. There need to be something to buy for someone who play year or more. And last i want to see is stronger and stronger items in shop that you need to have to bring sales number back up.

SKYeXile · 2011-10-14, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by ThGlump

Yea but what you pay for in WOT? Tank is one time purchase, no money after that. Rest is premium sub and consumables. Thats about it. Smed said they dont like idea of time limited equip purchases, and unless there will be some consumables in cash shop, there will be minimum purchases after first few months when ppl decide they dont need xp boost anymore.
There wont be new stronger guns every 3 months, and you dont need 10 variants of same gun. You dont need new uniform because you want to keep in outfit theme. F2P can earn money, but it cant earn it only from newcomers. There need to be something to buy for someone who play year or more. And last i want to see is stronger and stronger items in shop that you need to have to bring sales number back up.

Most of my money in world of tanks is spent converting XP, some converting gold to silver, but not alot, i make enough silver with a premium sub. But yea i convert alot of XP since i wont drive a tank that not fully equipped.

while i dont think planetside 2 can use this method of converting XP, they possibly could. SOE have said they like LOL's approtch, but i think that does directly translate into buying power, WOT's is yea you can buy power though premium tanks but converting XP is just converting XP you have ernt on one tank to use on any tank.

which SOE could in theory do, if they change their offline/leveling /xp gain system...but im unimaginative and can only ripoff systems iv already seen, im sure SOE will come up with ways to take our monies.

I SandRock · 2011-10-15, 05:25 AM

People love different looks. I don't want one outfit. In APB I had a ton of outfits. A ton of different looking cars. And I get easily bored. So I love trying out weapons that are slightly different. Equal doesn't mean equal

For instance. Rather than have GUN A which does 5 damage per shot at 10 shots per second. You could sell gun B which does 10 damage per shot at 5 shots per second. Or one that shoots faster but with less accuracy or more recoil. Or one with a silencer but with less damage. Or not even pure combat things. Like a weapon which has a bit more ammo. Or that allows switching to your sidearm faster. Or quicker reload. At the cost of some other things.

As long as they are variations of existing weapons with slight modifications its fine with me. I'm just against weapons that behave entirely different and unique from free progression weapons or are better in every way.

Rest assured though. Even if they sell a gun that is worse in every way than every free progression gun. As long as people know its a Paid for gun they'll complain its OP. So I'd advise SoE not to bother with such things.

Even then. Looking good is half the battle. So if I can get some sexy beret from a cash shop i will.

Not to mention a healthy game will continue to attract new members who will be buying all the stuff that was already bought by others.

And lastly, Guild Wars managed to be profitable with just a box price while running their servers themselves. With the addition of a cash shop im sure PS2 can be profitable.

SKYeXile · 2011-10-15, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by I SandRock

And lastly, Guild Wars managed to be profitable with just a box price while running their servers themselves. With the addition of a cash shop im sure PS2 can be profitable.

again, guild wars is totally different...i dont think planetside can sell 3 different versions of their game...oh no wait...they can...1 copy for each empire...anyway.

guild wars, being so heavily instanced their bandwidth costs and server stress it rather minimal when compared to the technical marvel that is planetside, yet alone planetside 2. though arenanet plans to release GW2 without a monthly sub and somehow make money? goodluck to them.

I SandRock · 2011-10-15, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

again, guild wars is totally different...i dont think planetside can sell 3 different versions of their game...oh no wait...they can...1 copy for each empire...anyway.

guild wars, being so heavily instanced their bandwidth costs and server stress it rather minimal when compared to the technical marvel that is planetside, yet alone planetside 2. though arenanet plans to release GW2 without a monthly sub and somehow make money? goodluck to them.

True. But PS2 has a cash shop on top of the box-fee (if they do that) where GW was entirely free. Although I think Bandwidth will be near enough the same. It's the sheer computer/server power needed to host so many people at the same time that'll be costly.

I wouldn't be surprised if GW2 has plans to introduce a cash shop as well. They might just wait for a month so everyone gets the game and gets hooked and THEN introduce it :P

Perhaps a better example would've been LOTRO. I believe there was a news item that said they made more money in like 2 months of being F2P than in an entire year of subscriptions?

Senyu · 2011-10-15, 10:49 AM

I just honestly cant see PS2 Cash shop surviving for a long period of time. This isn't a fantasy rpg. Its a shooter. And you can only do so much with a shooter when you promised not to sell power. It just doesnt seem viable in the long run. F2P works for some games. But I don't think it would work as well for PS2 as it does for others. Its a big industry game that has alot going into it. Its going to require a fair amount of money to keep it going.

Really think a Cash Shop for a shooter that will not be selling stronger weapons can support that over a long period of time?

ThGlump · 2011-10-15, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by I SandRock

People love different looks. I don't want one outfit. In APB I had a ton of outfits. A ton of different looking cars. And I get easily bored. So I love trying out weapons that are slightly different. Equal doesn't mean equal

For instance. Rather than have GUN A which does 5 damage per shot at 10 shots per second. You could sell gun B which does 10 damage per shot at 5 shots per second. Or one that shoots faster but with less accuracy or more recoil. Or one with a silencer but with less damage. Or not even pure combat things. Like a weapon which has a bit more ammo. Or that allows switching to your sidearm faster. Or quicker reload. At the cost of some other things.

Yes people like new visage. But they are trying to promote easily recognizable outfit uniforms and you need only one of that. So its going against massive selling in this area. And there is limited amount of possible variants. Usually you pick that what you like and dont need all, or trying variants that on the opposite you like (probably possible to try it in VR before buying?)

I SandRock · 2011-10-15, 01:08 PM

You are talking from your own perspective. You are not the F2P audience that makes it lucrative. In APB:R there are people who spend 50 euro on a single gun. That's just 1 gun, out of something like 20-30 items theyve been adding. All that gun has different is that it has 1 rank 3 upgrade that increases accuracy. You can very easily get a 1 slot gun and a rank 2 upgrade through progression.

There are people who will buy almost every item in the shop. That alone might be worth 1 year of subscription otherwise. But F2P means more players will come and go easier. A greater market than subscriptions. Some of those will spend a fortune. A lot more will spend a little money here and there for a few items they'd like. Players who would have otherwise not paid for the game because of the subscription.

More and more companies are all switching to the F2P setup for their games BECAUSE it is so lucrative. And there are endless possibilities for adding new things.
Not just items, designs, customizations or services. But as they introduce sandbox elements they can charge for that too. Want to build your own base? Sure. But the materials are in the shop. Want your outfit to claim a base? Sure. But they first need to buy that feature in the shop. Want a cool voice emote that yells "FOR VANU!" sure buy it in the shop. Want a nice emote where you are smoking a cigar? Buy it in the shop. They can easily keep adding more and more items.
It's a proven concept. SoE isn't doing it because they love us so much and think it's best for us. It's because they think this is where the phat money is. If they had thought subscriptions would get them more money rest assured that's what they would've done.

Xyntech · 2011-10-15, 01:46 PM

Yeah, the big thing with F2P models are the players who buy a lot.

There are plenty of players who buy a few things now and then too, which doesn't cover everything but it does help.

Then there are freeloaders who never drop a cent in the cash shop. These players are still adding value, especially in an MMO like Planetside, because they provide more bodies to shoot at.

SOE makes more money, the players get bigger battles, everybody wins.

That is, as long as cheaters are mitigated.

BOX PRICE.

xSlideShow · 2011-10-15, 01:54 PM

I like to think of it this way. Free to play = never quitting the game. At least for me, if they like it and it's good the odds are they will keep coming back because there is always new content being added and if you don't need to use the cash shop to compete then your casual gamer with love it. imo

Bags · 2011-10-15, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

while i dont think planetside 2 can use this method of converting XP, they possibly could. SOE have said they like LOL's approtch, but i think that does directly translate into buying power

Have you played LoL?

SKYeXile · 2011-10-15, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

Have you played LoL?

hrm good point, guess you;re really not buying power since they're all meant to be balanced.

Xyntech · 2011-10-15, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

hrm good point, guess you;re really not buying power since they're all meant to be balanced.

Also, it's not too hard to earn enough points to get any single champion without needing real money. It's just that it's impractical to try and get EVERY champion with free earnings.

This will probably be the same in PS2 though. It will be relatively easy, while still slightly time consuming, to advance all the way down any single unlock tree, but it'll be a lot harder to advance down all of the trees. Much faster to just buy everything, but that will probably cost quite a bit of money.

If someone wants to have every option open to them asap and wants to start using newly added sidegrades immediately, why not? Let them pay the bills. As long as it doesn't give them a win button.