News: New TotalBiscuit Video on IMPLANTS - Page 8

Logri · 2012-08-08, 05:03 AM

Originally Posted by Canaris

a full magazine is a happy magazine!

We are so on the same page!

SixShooter · 2012-08-08, 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by Otleaz

Unfair is someone having even 1% more killing power than you just because they played more or payed money.

So the game that you're looking for would have no leveling and nothing to unlock through game play. You would start at level 1 and then just stay there. Pistols only, just to keep it fair. Might as well throw out resources alltogether. Certs would need to go as well. You would start out with a basic loadout and that would be it for the entire time that you play and everyone would be on a fair playing field. Even better, we could call the game Quake, it has a nice ring to it.

It kind of seems like that game has already been made but hey, what ever floats your boat man.

Otleaz · 2012-08-08, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by SixShooter

So the game that you're looking for would have no leveling and nothing to unlock through game play. You would start at level 1 and then just stay there. Pistols only, just to keep it fair. Might as well throw out resources alltogether. Certs would need to go as well. You would start out with a basic loadout and that would be it for the entire time that you play and everyone would be on a fair playing field. Even better, we could call the game Quake, it has a nice ring to it.

It kind of seems like that game has already been made but hey, what ever floats your boat man.

You are kind of getting the idea, but you can work with it to make it funner. There is this cool new thing called "Sidegrades". It is a system that newer competitive games are using to replace upgrades, which only work for single player games.

If you do sidegrades, you can have all the fun of a singleplayer game and all of the fun of a multiplayer game bundled into one!

Sunrock · 2012-08-08, 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by IgloGlass

Planetside 2. Not Pay to Win, not Pay to Play and not Play to Win either

A game is either pay to win or play to win. A game can't be neither. I think a games should be play to win.

I think the implants shown here is very close to be P2W if you can buy them with SC. Sure it's not allot of difference but as he say it's a small enough difference to be worth using. And that is enough for me to call it P2W. It's defiantly P2W if you're going to compete with the top 1% of the best players on the server.

Otleaz · 2012-08-08, 05:37 AM

Originally Posted by Sunrock

A game is either pay to win or play to win. A game can't be neither. I think a games should be play to win.

I'm going to assume by play to win you mean that you need to invest time to stay competitive, and I am going to have to disagree.

With both Tribes and LoL, they put the player into an introductory matchmaking for an amount of time that is just long enough to completely get one rune page or max out one equipment set.

Disregarding skill, a player will be at a competitive level with people who have played for years as soon as they finish this introductory matchmaking. The only difference is, they will only be competitive if they use the single loadout they maxed out until they unlock more.

Sunrock · 2012-08-08, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by Otleaz

I'm going to assume by play to win you mean that you need to invest time to stay competitive, and I am going to have to disagree

I meant time + skill. As with every thing in life the more time you spend doing something the better you will be at it. So time + skill = the same thing here.

But yes if you play more you will earn levels faster and other things faster then some one that is not playing the game and that is fair to me. Because we all have 24 hours on the day that we can dispose of as we like. If you have wife and kids that hinder you from being online its not my problem its your problem and I should not have to suffer for that in game.

Scotsh · 2012-08-08, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by Sunrock

A game is either pay to win or play to win. A game can't be neither. I think a games should be play to win.

Of course it can. You only seem having dificulties to distinguish getting better at the game and earning bonuses.

I think the implants shown here is very close to be P2W if you can buy them with SC. Sure it's not allot of difference but as he say it's a small enough difference to be worth using. And that is enough for me to call it P2W. It's defiantly P2W if you're going to compete with the top 1% of the best players on the server.

1. They are NOT buyable with SC, this is very clearly shown in the video.

2. As we have established you never played PS1. There will never be something like a ranking of who is in the 1% on a server. If such an ranking would be made, i would never reflect 1on1 performance.

You are applying the very limited scope of games like BF or CoD, but is not at all comparable. PS is a different thing.

Klockan · 2012-08-08, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by Otleaz

You are kind of getting the idea, but you can work with it to make it funner. There is this cool new thing called "Sidegrades". It is a system that newer competitive games are using to replace upgrades, which only work for single player games.

If you do sidegrades, you can have all the fun of a singleplayer game and all of the fun of a multiplayer game bundled into one!

There are no "sidegrades" in any game, either the weapons perform at two entirely different roles and then you need said "sidegrade" to be able to perform in all situations you can encounter which means that the "sidegrades" makes you more powerful. If the weapons perform the same role differently then they wont be balanced, one will be better overall which means that you get more powerful with it.

Customization equals power, both by increasing the good stats while decreasing less good stats and by allowing you to adapt your class to the context at hand.

Memeotis · 2012-08-08, 06:06 AM

I wonder if they stack.

Sunrock · 2012-08-08, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by Scotsh

1. They are NOT buyable with SC, this is very clearly shown in the video.

Yes but it's still beta. I believe it when I see the game go live.

Originally Posted by Scotsh

2. As we have established you never played PS1. There will never be something like a ranking of who is in the 1% on a server. If such an ranking would be made, i would never reflect 1on1 performance.

You are applying the very limited scope of games like BF or CoD, but is not at all comparable. PS is a different thing.

I'm an old gamer... I have played allot more games then BF and CoD. PS1 is one of the few online games I never played sure. Because at the time PS one came out I was playing SWG. But I have enough experience to know that players will always find a way to rank and measure players against each other even though there are no game mech that does it for them.

But SOE have even talked about an app so you can follow your friends stats progression to see there accuracy, D/K ratio and what not where ever you are on your phone or i-pad. So even if there are no direct ladder ranking in this game you can safely bet that players are going to go and look at those to see who is best at doing things.

at 5:45 you can see what Im talking about. And that site reminds me allot of what you can have in BF3.

Memeotis · 2012-08-08, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by Klockan

There are no "sidegrades" in any game, either the weapons perform at two entirely different roles and then you need said "sidegrade" to be able to perform in all situations you can encounter which means that the "sidegrades" makes you more powerful. If the weapons perform the same role differently then they wont be balanced, one will be better overall which means that you get more powerful with it.

Customization equals power, both by increasing the good stats while decreasing less good stats and by allowing you to adapt your class to the context at hand.

No they don't equal power. I like my SMGs, so assume I start use the most standard type of SMG (good all-rounder, but still slightly poor at long range, but slightly better at short range), I then try out the other SMGs and find that I like using the one that is even better up close, but much worse at range.

It is my preferred playstyle, sure, but I'm making myself progressively more situational. I might be more powerful in my preferred 'situation', but I've made myself much weaker in many of the other situations. This means I have now made it more difficult for myself, and I have to work extra hard to get into the types of situations that fit my playstyle.

Scotsh · 2012-08-08, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by Sunrock

But SOE have even talked about an app so you can follow your friends stats progression to see there accuracy, D/K ratio and what not where ever you are on your phone or i-pad. So even if there are no direct ladder ranking in this game you can safely bet that players are going to go and look at those to see who is best at doing things.

Except that no one knowing the game will give a flying **** about those stats.
People will be renowned for the outfit or squad they serve in or they are leading, for their achievements in the progression of an empire in a persistant (server) world, not some lame K/D-value and what not.

And for those people who do admire those stats or need them to get their tissues wet... i couldnt care less.

Klockan · 2012-08-08, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by Memeotis

No they don't equal power. I like my SMGs, so assume I start use the most standard type of SMG (good all-rounder, but still slightly poor at long range, but slightly better at short range), I then try out the other SMGs and find that I like using the one that is even better up close, but much worse at range.

You start with one weapon per class, the smg will most likely be a sidegrade on most classes.

Originally Posted by Memeotis

It is my preferred playstyle, sure, but I'm making myself progressively more situational. I might be more powerful in my preferred 'situation', but I've made myself much weaker in many of the other situations. This means I have now made it more difficult for myself, and I have to work extra hard to get into the types of situations that fit my playstyle.

Then you chose to be gimp if you use the SMG out in the open, but when indoors you are way stronger than the guy who just uses the starting AR. Any good player will use the AR when he expects to be outdoors and the SMG when he expects to be indoors. Also if you personally likes to go in close quarters and mostly fight at that range it means that you personally get stronger with the "sidegrade" SMG which is better under those circumstances.

Liwen Diamond · 2012-08-08, 06:27 AM

I would like to know more details about this implant system before saying "Omg it's horrible/useless/awesome/whatever".

First, the 24 hours : Are we saying 24 hours of actual RL time, as in, the timer runs down even when you work, sleep or eat, or play other games, etc etc. Or are we saying 24 hours logged into and playing the game proper. This is the first point I want to bring because it's the difference between me using implants or not even bothering with them ever. I usually don't have multiple hours of play available to me each day. I plan on playing this game mostly in short 1-2 hours sessions about 3-4 times a week.

Someone earlier in the thread mentionned you get grab yourself 200-300 Auraxium an hour. Based on that, if I want the tier 3 implants, one or two play sessions is all I need to buy a full set, but given my playing habits, I'll only benefit from that grind of Auraxium for 1-2 hours if the implant timer is based on real time. If you say the ressource is also used to buy permanent gun sidegrades, vehicules, etc, then it's safe to say I'd rather save up my slowly earned Auraxium on these and never bother with implants for ages. However, if the implants are based on logged-in time, then I can see myself using them all the time. Each 3 out of 24 hours chunks of play time would be invested in these implants, while the 21 remaining would be saved up for everything else.

That was the first and most important aspect of the implant system I wanted to discuss.

Second, the impact of implants. I'm not sure I've seen the same video as the rest of you. For example the reload time. With the best implant I've estimated it was 25-35% faster than without implant. I don't see why everyone insist on saying that's a marginal impact. It may not be as extreme as the CoD perk equivalent, but it's still huge. And that's just one out of three possible implants. Combined, I can easely see these giving me a the edge against an implantless soldiers, turning what would otherwise be close calls or death scenarios into easy wins and close calls respectively.

However, I don't see that being a problem, if, and only if, the implant timer is based on logged-in time and acquiring all 3 implant slots can be done within a relatively short amount of play (like the first 20 hours of play). Because the in game ressources needed to acquire these implants can be farmed within a few short hours, a relatively new player who as unlocked his implants slots will seen this disavantage disappear forever soon in is PS2 career and the 5 year veteran players won't have their unfair edge.

Note that I would still prefer such as early play disavantage never existed to begin with. The idea proposed by Otleaz to have a default implant set that is competitive is good. Something along the line of ''Each implant you put into your skull removes like 5% of your health pool would also be cool'' Make implants true sidegrades instead of straight up upgrades. Or heck, fancy this : ''New player with low battlerank have a slightly larger health pool which disappears after they reached Battle rank X, unlocking a implant slot at the same time.''

At the end of the day, it really comes down to this : Classic MMORPGs always treated new players unfairly in PvP situations because a progression system makes older players anywhere from marginally more to ungodly more powerful than newbies. The so called play to win that applied until newbies had grinded away the leveling process and could finally enter the 'endgame' which was deemed the only interesting part of the game by many, because the leveling part suffered from crap like 'OMG this guy is 40 levels higher than me, Run or Die!'' I don't want this for a MMOFPS such as Planetside 2 because PvP is all there is to the game. I don't have 30 to 200 hours of leveling PvE content or level appropriate PvP Battlegrounds to grind away until I'm able to enter the ''real'' game on an even playing field with everyone esle. And despite all the arguments that can be made such as ''5 years old players are only 20% more powerful than you, you can still contribute to the success of your Empire and have fun.'' it's still going to be unfair until the day I finally catch up, assuming that's even possible.

Another argument can be made that it's not going to be unfair because everyone present here right now is likely to play this game from day one of release after the last Beta wipe, but I give you this counter argument in return : I'm going to play about 10 hours a week. How am I suppose to keep up with those that play 10 hours a day? Also think of the poor folks getting into the game later on! Not just your little person.

TL;DR : Read it you lazy ass.

Sunrock · 2012-08-08, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by Scotsh

Except that no one knowing the game will give a flying **** about those stats.
People will be renowned for the outfit or squad they serve in or they are leading, for their achievements in the progression of an empire in a persistant (server) world, not some lame K/D-value and what not.

And for those people who do admire those stats or need them to get their tissues wet... i couldnt care less.

Sure you will be known by the outfit or squad you belong to. But how do you think they will recruit players? What will be the qualifications to get into one of the best outfits? My guess is to show you are a good player. And how do you do that? Of course you can't do that by a stat sheet alone. But it does not help to have a bad one.