Ghost capping zergs - air domination everywhere else - wordt 2x event ever. - Page 8

bpostal · 2012-12-27, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by igster

...Lots O' Stuff:
Summary Fur Coat and No Underpants
PS2 is the game of the year. The graphics, the mechanics, the weapons, the vehicles and to some extent the maps and bases are stunning. Without the deep rich long game that we can still be playing in 10 years time it will lose population to the next big game.

PS1 graphics and mechanics were bad (not at the time) but people played for a long time despite this. It wasn't because of the meta game that it lost population. We still had great times for 10 years.

Put a meta game of equivalent depth into PS2 and it'll be the game of the decade and I'll buy all of the cuban hats, 6 inch heels, tiger print leotards and studded codpieces that you put into the PS2 Shop for the next ten years.

With only a Shallow meta game as it is now hardcore players will be bored and move on. The shop is gonna have full shelves and empty tills within the year. Along with many others I'll probably be looking for my fashion accessories elsewhere.

I agree with your points, not as much with the resources hampering the gameplay, but that's probably a matter of perspective as my cooldowns and resources are generally available unless we're WG'd. I especially agree that rapid response isn't viable and seems to exist only for frustrating and burning out players who wish to try it.

The real problem I have though, is that so few played Planetside, real proper Planetside, that the majority of players are satisfied with the game we have now, regardless of it's hollowness and it's lack of long term sustainability. I can't fault them for not knowing better, as most have not played PS1 and as such don't have a yearning for a deep, strategic, tactical game that one can play for years.

elidion · 2012-12-27, 11:22 AM

This is interesting to me, I play on the Genudine Server and for us it seems to be the opposite during the 2x Exp periods. I'm not sure if people realize that base caps don't offer the double exp bonus or not...but on my server they do...which means people go where the fighting is because it's a farm fest with double exp on everything. If I go and ghost cap I get about 11-12k score per hour if we move quickly enough. Right now I am getting 35k SPH by defending an amp station for the last 4 hours.

igster · 2012-12-27, 11:52 AM

BTW I don't want the zerg to go away. It is a nice introduction into the game to follow the herd and pickup the complexities of the game mechanics.

A large Zerg is not a bad thing at all. When a Zerg properly meets a Zerg it does result in epic fights. However, permanent Zerg becomes dull and repetitive. And results in stalemates, first world war sausage grinders and stale gameplay.

Even the most tactical teams want to zerg at times. But they also want the opportunity to take off the restraining bolts and step it up and go off piste.

GraphicJ · 2012-12-27, 01:35 PM

The moral of this story: Don't fight in small groups.

bpostal · 2012-12-27, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by GraphicJ

The moral of this story: Don't fight in small groups.

A good discussion for http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...=51436&page=22 but I see no reason this game can not support smaller units and promote them by being effective.

LexDecon · 2012-12-27, 03:11 PM

Here are the issues my outfit and myself have seen.

1. Aircraft aren't aircraft. they are flying tanks. Situation as follows.

We are a small outfit no more then 10 on at any given time, so we usually do side caps, to help with the larger attacks. We move into say Spec-Ops training camp to retake it. Hit VS, we'll we know toe to toe in close range with VS is going to see us torn up, so we stay back at distance pick them off then move in quick. We move in, set up defense to recap, and here comes the scythes and liberators. as usual. The following tear us up.

1. Liberator.
1. Scythe.

They fly in, we all pull our AA weapons, couple duel bursters and within three or four minutes we've scared off the Scythe, Scared off, not destroyed, it returns to its dock repairs and is inbound before we can even dent the Liberator. Not mentioning, one Lib run and we've pretty much been dumped on our heads. a single cloaker comes in for the VS after that, caps the point before we can get back into the area.

Repeat this scenario, over and over and over. Currently PS2 isn't about Infantry on a large scale. Its about "I can't win with infantry so I'm going to spam tanks and aircraft because our numbers mean we can."

2. Aircraft aren't used to combat Aircraft, or are rarely used as such. I've seen extremely few set up for Air to Air combat. Every one I've seen are set up for Air to Ground. That tells me there is a problem with Aircraft and equipment. Its far to easy to farm infantry with aircraft. Between Liberators and the ESF's. A single ESF can wreck havoc on any squad with its rockets.

Suggestion: Close Air Support needs eyes on the ground to work. implement some system that requires any ESF or Liberator to be in working conjunction with some one on the ground in order to effectively deploy air to ground weapon systems. Make it something more then just a "spot"

3. Defense. It doesn't happen, has no point to happen. Zerg go from Biodome to Tech plant, to Biodome to the Crown on Indar, the other Conts. its just Biodome to Tech Plant to Biodome. No point in grabbing or defending. No front lines. No push and hold. Its rather old, boring at times and frankly getting to the point the fun is gone. Its completely frustrating to try and take and hold an area to have One Liberator come over head so high you can't hit it with rockets or flak and it just bombs your squad to oblivion. And it keeps doing it till you stop spawning there. Doesnt even try to cap the point because they are getting more XP by farming your squad then they would capping the point.

Make Front lines, and Defense worth something. Hell we would love to see the ability for an outfit to claim a location as their own, and get Defense bonus to the outfit as well as the faction as a whole by KEEPING that area. More so then just cost to Tanks, Infantry and Air resources. Make it terrain associated or something. Slow the front lines down. Make it more worthwhile.

Right now honestly PS2 plays so fast, there is no point in even setting up a strategy or doing anything other then zerging.

While I'm at it. Please add some visual indicator to mines when placed, Something on the map, or even on the HUD that will show when your mines are placed and when they go off even if they don't kill. and Increase the amount to be deployed! Mine fields would cause alot of changes and slow down the front lines alot!

Thank you.

typhaon · 2012-12-27, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

The OP isn't crazy - I've observed the same behavior lately, especially late at night. I like to occasionally join random squads and try to be a typical casual player and see how different types of players and outfits experience the game.

This is what I typically see in larger groups - players roll around in a blob from territory to territory getting capture XP and avoiding the enemy. When the blobs meet it is by chance, not intent. When players try to stop the blob they usually get rolled and have little choice but to find their own team's blob and roll with it. Larger outfits have the numbers to chance this behavior, which is why I don't see it on ops. Seen several reddit threads pop up about this sort of thing too.

Seems to be a combination of playing the territory control game + path of least resistance....but it isn't fun...at all. Its the exact opposite of what I experience in outfit play where we intentionally go after the enemy and pick fights because that's where the entertainment is.

Any feedback from the PSU community on contributing factors to this behavior? I have my own thoughts but I'd like to learn what y'all think is going on here.

I swear this has been covered in literally hundreds of threads....

SturmovikDrakon · 2012-12-27, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

The OP isn't crazy - I've observed the same behavior lately, especially late at night. I like to occasionally join random squads and try to be a typical casual player and see how different types of players and outfits experience the game.

This is what I typically see in larger groups - players roll around in a blob from territory to territory getting capture XP and avoiding the enemy. When the blobs meet it is by chance, not intent. When players try to stop the blob they usually get rolled and have little choice but to find their own team's blob and roll with it. Larger outfits have the numbers to chance this behavior, which is why I don't see it on ops. Seen several reddit threads pop up about this sort of thing too.

Seems to be a combination of playing the territory control game + path of least resistance....but it isn't fun...at all. Its the exact opposite of what I experience in outfit play where we intentionally go after the enemy and pick fights because that's where the entertainment is.

Any feedback from the PSU community on contributing factors to this behavior? I have my own thoughts but I'd like to learn what y'all think is going on here.

My opinion is that there are way too many places that you can attack at once. Usually when looking at the map I can find 10-15 hexes to attack on the frontline, and most of them are abandoned. People are too spread out

Hex system needs a look at or a replacement is needed

Bases design and layout needs to be re-evaluated. Way too big, way too open. I'd rather have more of PS1s smaller, condensed bases than the chaos that we have now.

StumpyTheOzzie · 2012-12-27, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by LexDecon

Currently PS2 isn't about Infantry on a large scale. Its about "I can't win with infantry so I'm going to spam tanks and aircraft because our numbers mean we can."

2. Aircraft aren't used to combat Aircraft, or are rarely used as such. I've seen extremely few set up for Air to Air combat. Every one I've seen are set up for Air to Ground. That tells me there is a problem with Aircraft and equipment. Its far to easy to farm infantry with aircraft. Between Liberators and the ESF's. A single ESF can wreck havoc on any squad with its rockets.

Thank you.

Killing 1 freshly spawned infanteer earns you 100xp (plus or minus, bonuses etc. whatevs)

Killing 1 sunderer gets you 300.

Why would I ever kill the sunderer when I can farm the infantry? If dead infantry XP was based on length of time they were alive (PS1) I wouldn't bother farming, I'd go straight for the sunderer, THEN clean up the infantry. K/D is less important than certs or xp/h

Killing a liberator should be worth 1000xp, plus 100 for each guy inside, plus vengeance bonus, plus killstreak stop. Then you'd see some A2A setups.

Sunrock · 2012-12-27, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Any feedback from the PSU community on contributing factors to this behavior? I have my own thoughts but I'd like to learn what y'all think is going on here.

Make it more valuable to defend your own territory. IMO it's just that simple.

Sunrock · 2012-12-27, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

Killing a liberator should be worth 1000xp, plus 100 for each guy inside, plus vengeance bonus, plus killstreak stop. Then you'd see some A2A setups.

HAHAHA

Liberators is not that hard to kill if your a ESF pilot.

Rivenshield · 2012-12-27, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by Sunrock

HAHAHA

Liberators is not that hard to kill if your a ESF pilot.

Some of us can't fly for shit. Sorry. Some of us don't enjoy being repeatedly victimized by airborne instagib area-effect direct-fire point-and-click, either. I just posted a longish screed on the official forums about it.

Tired of Liberator spam. Tired of grenade spam. Tired of being unable to do anything constructive for longer than two seconds. My beloved Republic persists in its fetish for support -- we still have heals and fixes galore, and small knots of CE's willing to go up with a vehicle or turret under fire.... and it never does any good. Never. Sufficient firepower means tactics are a moot point, even in the interior of a biolab. Whole knots of people patiently kneeling and keeping discipline get wiped out by multiple bouncing grenades and aircraft firing directly through the gate into the interior.

Time to kill is meaningless anymore with the proliferation of area-effect instadeath. The skirmish lines that ran across hilltops and combined-arms battles of early release are a pleasant memory. It's taken just a few weeks for everybody to figure out what gets you XP and start doing it. Planetside 2 is cannibalizing itself. It's not a first-person shooter anymore, not even much of a wargame... and won't be until they unfuck it. Rotten base design merely exacerbates all of this. Oh, I can always instantly swap to the winning side if I feel like, but I'm old fashioned enough not to want to.

Long story short, I'm throwing in the towel for now. In the midst of this hyperactive fragfest, there's literally nothing for me to do. Nothing at all.

Velkkonen · 2012-12-27, 09:31 PM

Alot of very good points made in this thread, I would just encourage everyone not to simply complain. At least contribute something, even if its just a good critique with no solution. That said,

The TTK in this game is just fine. Its really in my opinion one of the best things going in this game. Weapon balance issues aside, everyone goes down in an appropriate manner. At the same time, there is simply not enough cover in this game. Often times you have no choice but to run up a hill or across an exposed area and hope you don't get blown away by the 600 people shooting at you. By the way this problem would still exist even if the TTK was longer. It has to do more with your options for staying alive rather than the fact that your TTK is realistic. I also think this game breeds impatience tactically due to the zerg-centric nature. I can stay alive in hecktic situations for a long time but again, no real cover/options to advance my position in this games current state. I really think a longer TTK would make the game worse as it doesn't address the real problem. You should be worried about getting dropped by a few shots, thus causing to think more soundly and work as a team (there is that medic class you know) but you shouldn't be restricted to 1 or 2 firing positions because relocation almost gaurentees death.

Why not give engineers or some class some kind of deployable cover? Or give the sunderer some kind of cover ability that absorbs almost 100% damage (perhaps at the expensive of something like total functionality, and give undeploying a massive cooldown). Those are just off of the top of my head. As it stands this game is really an infiltrators dream. I play that class the most and I find combat most satisfying as that class because you can easily navigate terrain without worrying (in most cases) about being blown away as you are seeking cover again.

Also, as many, many people have iterated here, defense in this game is basically meaningless. There should be some kind of passive cert bonus to defending even a desolate base. Bases also need redesign as many have stated here. I consider myself a very forgiving and patient man when it comes to, really anything, but I caved on zerging in this game. There is really no other way to earn certs at a reasonable rate in this game other than dropping at crown and just killing. I think everyone intrinsically realizes this, even if they don't like it at least they are earning certs. That shouldn't be the case. I didnt play PS1 by the way.

Cert and exp earnings should be more dynamic. How about exp simply for getting a lock with a grounder? Another thread was complaining about how weak AA is. I beg to differ, very strongly. Simply locking onto an enemy aircraft will send them off mission, and as apparently SOE wished, it works great as a deterrent to air. Certs for that? How about certs for scouting with a ESF? You should basically get certs for any contribution to your faction, no matter how modest. There are many design issues all over, I cant list them all. But this game has a very strong foundation I believe, somehow I am still up late playing this game despite the issues it has, and I will continue to be. But there needs to be tons of tweaking done to pull this game away from zerg fests. Game still feels like a beta unfortunately. Love the game though.

Itsatrap · 2012-12-28, 02:38 AM

I can't help but wonder how things might be different if capping-XP was scaled based on the enemy/friendly ratio in the hex when you entered.

Sunrock · 2012-12-28, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by Rivenshield

*snip*

Long story short, I'm throwing in the towel for now. In the midst of this hyperactive fragfest, there's literally nothing for me to do. Nothing at all.

Yea it sounds like the concept of planetside is not for you as you want a game with no vehicles nor utilities.