News: Roadmap Resource Revamp & Continental Lattice Updated - Page 9

EvilNinjadude · 2013-07-21, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by Baneblade

Introduce the Lodestar and make one of the payload configurations a drop-able ANT Storage Tank.

Whoa whoa whoa, didn't we ever argue for the Galaxy to be able to transport vehicles at the cost of passenger count? When the F did we lose sight of that? I can't remember the last time we talked about it!

Carbon Copied · 2013-07-21, 06:41 AM

@ Obstuction: Yeah I can see the time implementations of 2 additional vehicles but personally I think it either needs to be that rather than reverting back to using the Sunderer to deploy a "spawn capsule" or sacrifice the troop carrying for the ANT module bolt on. The very major work you're doing with new vehicles is the vehicle art, any mechanics (such as spawning) are cut out and just transferred to the new model (albeit with tweaks/bastardisation).

Something to consider though is the possibility it's more system resource stressful as it has to track the AMS spawn in time with the vehicle, then it needs to track where the player deployed it and keep it tracked/deployed as he drives off.
Higby did mention when people kept asking for the ability to swap / change upgrades on vehicles at the re-supply towers that because the vehicle it spawns at the terminal is a new entity built with A,C,D,E it has to reload the whole configuration and you can't just replace A with B on the fly and keep C,D,E etc. - therefore no way to re-supply your version of the deployable sunderer until it times out, is destroyed or you get bored and re-spawn it costing you more resources. Just a game limitation. Having "new" vehicles works around the limitation.

Also you say from the attacking side that it should be indistinguishable but it's kind of counter productive if you're in a public convoy and you don't know which vehicles you should be protecting - ok organized outfits are going to know as they'll be doing their thing but that's not the singular make up of the convoy (hopefully) that's rolling with you. The fact that you know you have these visually "that is an AMS/ANT" high value targets should make you more aware of the ESF suicide bomber threat (which with the resource revamp I think will diminish considering resources will play a bigger roll), but equally it should be a "punishing" affect on the convoy for not dealing or bringing the right tools to the party to deal with threat x.

I don't think the Sunderer has to lose all of it's support role once it's broken a line - the AMS module could be replaced by a "Terminal Module"; you can't spawn at it (that's for the AMS vehicle) but you can still pull classes and change loadouts etc. I think it gives the option for the Sunderer to take on a more offensive/defensive support role maybe even extending it to things like bubble shielding making it that FOB command type vehicle - getting it to work with other vehicles so maybe you deploy this bubble shield and after the AMS can park next to it, which results in risk and reward but I'm wandering off topic there...

Either way I think it'd be the ideal time to define the vehicles further as much as take into account the mechanics of how base power is delivered.

blazealm · 2013-07-21, 09:17 AM

The map is a great start but only way that can truly work, we need sanctuaries back, and then we need more conts then just Hossin and the battle islands. The new road map is definitely a good start.

Sledgecrushr · 2013-07-21, 09:42 AM

They dont have to build an ant to make this work. A new module for the sunderer would be perfect just make it look like a fuel hauling truck. The new module would add a large tank to the back of the sunderer. Would be limited to driver only. You would be able to use all the other defensive certs that you have. This seems like a quick dirty fix that would really hit the spot.

Calista · 2013-07-21, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

They dont have to build an ant to make this work. A new module for the sunderer would be perfect just make it look like a fuel hauling truck. The new module would add a large tank to the back of the sunderer. Would be limited to driver only. You would be able to use all the other defensive certs that you have. This seems like a quick dirty fix that would really hit the spot.

So I guess air dropping an ANT would be out of the question? Or maybe we just put wings on the Sundy ANT and let it fly be flown in solo? And if there is water on Hossin how about we attach an outboard motor on the Sundy? I fully understand and appreciate economy of scale but seriously we need more variety of vehicles not just variety amongst the vehicles we have.

Jonny · 2013-07-21, 10:00 AM

(whoops just posted this in the wrong thread - moved to here)

Hi Malorn,

So i'm going to write it down in a way I understand it working.

Say a player has a maximum 200 nanite resource pool to use. You said it takes 10 mins to go from 0 to full in ideal conditions (100% base power level) so the top income rate is 20 nanites/min.

"Warpgates provide a small amount of power inflow to connected facilities. This is enough to offset any drain for small groups"

This could mean 12 players at base with 100% Power all take 20 nanites/min from that base? (240 nanites/min in total) without it draining power.

Now say another squad arrives all needing resources. That's a total 480 nanites/min drain on the base, meaning the power level starts falling at 240/min. After 1 min, the base (for example, if it can hold 10,000 nanites) is now at 9760 nanites.

All players after that 1 min are now recieving 97.6% of that top level resource gain of 20 nanites/min. Meaning they are getting 19.52 nanites/min. This drain is ongoing every min and so the resources each player receives drops like this every minute:

Power level 100% - Nanite/min - 20
Power level 97.6% - Nanite/min - 19.52
Power level 95.2% - Nanite/min - 19.04
Power level 92.8% - Nanite/min - 18.56
etc...

Or for a small base holding 1000 nanites for example: (per min)

Power level 100% - Nanite/min - 20
Power level 76% - Nanite/min - 15.2
Power level 52% - Nanite/min - 10.4
Power level 28% - Nanite/min - 5.6
Power level 4% - Nanite/min - 0.8
Power level 0% - Nanite/min - 0

So with 2 squads (24 players needing resources) the small base drains in 5 mins. The large base having 10x the storage drains in 50 mins.

That disconnect currently between power level and personal nanites might be confusing, as I believe people need to see how the two directly affect one another.

Clear boundaries need to be made about where you stop gaining resources. A bases power level and resource distribution per min need to be shown clearly.

TL;DR - We need numbers, clear boundaries and players knowing what nanite gain they're getting per min!

Obstruction · 2013-07-21, 10:01 AM

The fact that you know you have these visually "that is an AMS/ANT" high value targets should make you more aware of the ESF suicide bomber threat (which with the resource revamp I think will diminish considering resources will play a bigger roll), but equally it should be a "punishing" affect on the convoy for not dealing or bringing the right tools to the party to deal with threat x.

i dunno man, if i can see the resource train from the air i'm going to troll it all day long and it will just lead to more liberator nerfs that don't need to happen. i made my suggestion based on how hard i will forcefully insert my you-know-what into the please-omg-no of any painfully obvious resource unit.

i don't know what the limitations are in regard to my other suggestion but it really doesn't have to be much more complex than an engineer entity placing a turret entity.

again i really don't know how their systems work exactly but what i was trying to get across would be something like:

1. sunderer enters AMS loading facility region
2. sunderer seats 6-12 loaded with placeholder "infantry" named AMS
3. sunderer transports placeholders to a location
4. sunderer activates deploy ability
5. system checks deploy zone limitation, checks for placeholder infantry
6. placeholders deploy and are removed from the map
7. spawn tube is placed and constructed behind the sunderer and goes live.
8. sunderer is free to load/unload real troops and possibly to return to load more placeholders if possible.

i guess the only thing that's a real stretch is ownership, which may not even really be necessary. maybe no one should own the spawn tubes, like no one owns a base turret. the exp per spawn mechanic could go away then, and just give a flat reward for dropping a spawn tube.

anyway i don't expect my suggestion to be 100% perfect because i don't really know the limitations. but they can use any part of it they like.

the reason i thought of using infantry space to load these things is basically what i already said; 1. that it will be harder for (asshats like me in a) Liberator to just swoop in and obliterate, and 2. not dependent on loadouts and the problem you mentioned.

if pubs need to know there's an ANT or AMS loaded in a particular vehicle i am pretty sure it could get any number of hud and minimap indicators.

besides if there's really going to be the kind of metagame most people seem to want, making those things public knowledge may not be the best idea anyway. i mean i will probably be spying on enemy resource movements sometimes, if it starts to really matter. so naturally i'm not the only one thinking that way.

Eggy · 2013-07-21, 11:12 AM

^^. I agree, the grief detection, reporting and punishment systems need to be improved for some of these new mechanics to work, otherwise its too easy for the usual suspects to ruin it for everyone.

I think the ANT should not be a sunderer addon. In fact I would like to see 2 power supply vehicles.

A small scale ANT similar in style to the PS1 ANT but with the addition of 1 gunner slot on top with a small selection of the current top guns. This would be similar to the harraser in terms of armour, the lightning in terms of speed and 1 sunderer slot in terms of dps.

A medium scale ANT thats more of a harverster style vehicle to look at, just slightly smaller than a sunderer. 1 dedicated driver, 1 rear gunner and 1 top/side gunner (almost full 360 vision). Still has decent speed and armour. But both less than the current MBTs. Again a selection of the top guns on both slots. This ANT would take longer to fill up, it takes longer to deliver but on delivery it delivers more power.

The first one can be used to deliver a small amount of power fast. You might send 2-3 to the same base on different routes. All need escorts and the fast ground vehicles can provide this.

The 2nd is more of an investment, moves slower and can be escorted by the slower vehicles.

Both are "basicaly" free certs when un escorted.

Both could benefit from an enhanced mine guard, in fact with some thought could maybe also get a flail or EMP pulse for mine clearance.

soco · 2013-07-21, 03:33 PM

Cant wait for these changes

Soothsayer · 2013-07-21, 04:58 PM

I'd like to see an ANT able to expel some of it's energy as a defensive blast that could function to temporarily disable a vehicle's weapons.

For simplicity's sake, call it EMP.

Obstruction · 2013-07-21, 07:56 PM

nor should we encourage ANTs to go off on their own because they have a few troops inside them. Sunderers already can do that.

LOL.

as a full time Lib pilot I LOVE WHEN THEY DO THIS.

please, ignore my well thought out suggestions, and make the ANT a slow moving, defenseless, easily identifiable vehicle with a generous hitbox.

and give it a big fat 1000 xp base rate.

i will roffle all day.

redshirt · 2013-07-21, 09:06 PM

Some form of ANT / Space Truck is needed.

If you wanted to give it more roles beyond being a simple space truck. You could make it into a general logistics vehcile. Give it two utility slots to fit things like Ammo supply, Repair, ANT and 'future cool stuff'. The option for a single weapon mount in one of those utility points might also be worth looking at - with a limited range of weapons availble, standard 20mm, kolbat, and maybe the ranger. Limit the functionality of the repair/ammo supply abilities to being in a deployed state. Allows it to become a mobile deployable supply depo in large tank battles.

Along with a mixture of chassie/defensive slots.

Ragnafrak · 2013-07-21, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by Obstruction

LOL.

as a full time Lib pilot I LOVE WHEN THEY DO THIS.

please, ignore my well thought out suggestions, and make the ANT a slow moving, defenseless, easily identifiable vehicle with a generous hitbox.

and give it a big fat 1000 xp base rate.

i will roffle all day.

As we all would! That's the point. It needs to be defended by other vehicles.

Regarding the trailer idea - I don't like it because it's basically just adding more utility to every other vehicle. Whats to stop everyone one having an ANT trailer on their vehicles all the time? Whats to stop every capable vehicle in any given convoy from grabbing one? Who gets to feel special for fulfilling the roll of ANT driver if anybody who's already piloting something else can be an ANT mover at the same time?

SternLX · 2013-07-22, 02:12 AM

So this is my first post in this thread.
Loving all I have read that was posted on the Roadmap about the Resource system revamp.

Saw Malorns post asking for input on ANT ability or vehicle.
My vote would actually change things up a bit. Like others have mentioned there were vehicles that had specific roles in PS1. The Sundie in PS2 is over used as a vehicle and has too many roles as is. My proposal is thus:

Add an additional vehicle with it's on own unique silhouette(I'm thinking Deliverer) that can serve as either an AMS or an ANT only! If it is in an AMS role it has a dedicated driver, and 2 gun positions(forward left and right side with a blind spot in the rear) for self defense. When in an ANT role it removes the ability to have guns but leaves the seats for riding 'shotgun' as it were. Lore wise I'd say it removes the weapons as the space is needed for the for the Auraxium storage device.

Either way, I think a new vehicle is needed to help more easily identify a high priority vehicle. It's possible to use multiple Sundies now as decoys in a convoy for the real AMS Sundie while the others are kitted as either a Supply or Repair Sundie. If we had another all new vehicle as an AMS or ANT vehicle there would be no question which is the priority target. I know, I know, there are those of you that would say that would ruin a current game play tactic. When actually you could just pull multiple AMS Deliverers and get the same effect. I believe doing this would put the Sunderer back into it's original role of APC/Re-Supply Vehicle and with PS2's vehicle repair twist. Sundie would still be multi-role but with one less ability.

Anyway, that's my ideas and suggestions on the subject.

Ragnafrak · 2013-07-22, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Assist

Give the ANT a 10s-deploy, 150m EMP field. Disables any enemy vehicles entering an area. A defenders dream :O

In theory, that would be very fun. In practice, when people figure out they can stack 30 ANTs inside 1 small area and have this ability going off every 5 seconds, no.